Author Topic: Any real advantage in an expensive saw  (Read 8035 times)

malc

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Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« on: December 07, 2011, 10:58:18 am »
Is there any real advantage in buying an expensive saw for the avarage scroller? Mine cost about ?100 and seems to cut fine. If I splashed out ?500 would my cutting be five times better? I know that skill makes up a considerable proportion, so how much does the saw add?
Malc

Offline scrollgirl

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2011, 11:08:16 am »
After having my $500 DeWalt saw for about 14 years, I had thought that it would be the last saw I would ever want or need.  How could I get much better?  Unfortunately, it began to show signs of wear and I knew it was time for a new saw.  However, after reading how so many people were having trouble with the newer DeWalts and the poor customer service stories, I decided to go with an Excalibur. Everything I read on it was positive.  It was a step up, as it cost me about $900.  But I didn't want to get something that would be troublesome to me, living in a more remote area and needing it for making my living.

I took the plunge in March and got the Excalibur 21" saw. I was totally AMAZED at how much better I cut on it.  My partner felt the same way.  The difference between the mid-priced DeWalt and the higher priced Excalibur was incredible.  It was smoother, easier to control and turn, and had much less front to back blade movement which made precision cutting so much easier.  I couldn't believe the difference.

There isn't a day that goes by that I am not happy that I decided on moving up.  I often am asked to recommend a saw for a couple hundred dollars for 'beginners.'  It is so difficult for me to do so because there are so many issues with them that make their scroll saw experience less pleasant.  I know not everyone has the money to spend on a upper end saw, but it is unfortunate to have someone who is enthusiastic  get a lower end saw only to be frustrated and discouraged. 

Overall, scroll sawing is a "cheap hobby" as far as woodworking is concerned.  You need little tools besides a drill press, blades and a saw to make a wide variety of projects.  Wouldn't it be best to invest in the best equipment you could afford to make your hobby pleasant and trouble free?  I think so.

That's my take on it!  :D  I am interested to see what others say.

Sheila
Sheila A. Bergner-Landry
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Offline Judy Hunter

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2011, 11:39:20 am »
Nice write up Sheila,  You know the mess I went through :)  I thought I wanted the Excaliber too but had so much trouble with it that I took it back and bought a new Delta (which is the same as the DeWalt) It is working fine for me.  The question is do you suppose the Excaliber that I and cyber
Ghost bought were LEMONS? We bought them from the same place. I wanted to buy local because of price, service, parts etc?
I'm from North Dakota

Offline GrayBeard

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 11:49:25 am »
My take on this....

I know full well I will never have the scroll skills of people like Steve, Dgman, Sheila Landry and others.
I learned on a less expensive saw and found the projects I like best to do, so I geared my 'upgrade' to that end. I bought my 788 three years ago by stretching my resources and am glad I did.
Do I wish I could afford a better saw? Sure! Do I really NEED a better saw? Not unless my 788 starts to fail and what I will do at that time I do not have any idea.
I was raised by a father who was a farm boy and became an aircraft mechanic. His philosophy was to buy the best tools you can afford to serve the purpose for which you intend to use them. I have followed that most of my life and have no regrets with my tool purchases.

What I am trying to convey is to first decide what you really hope to accomplish with your hobby. Decide what will serve you best in that pursuit, make your decision and then purchase the tools that will help you achieve your goal.

When selecting transportation it would sure be nice to drive a Mercedes to the mall but a Chevy and even a Mini will get you there. You just have to decide how comfortable you want to be during the trip.

~~~GrayBeard~~~
I never really wanted to grow up....All I wanted was to be able to reach the cookie jar...and play with my DW 788

Offline scrollgirl

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 12:22:48 pm »
Judy - I do think that there was an unusual problem with your saw.  While I am sure that they are not all perfect, I am really happy with mine.  I bought mine from Seyco in Texas even though I live here in Nova Scotia.  I had heard about his service and he has a reputation of helping others that I haven't seen equal.  To me, that was worth a lot.  I am happy you have a good saw (I did like my DeWalt too until it started normal wearing out) and wish you lots of years of great service with it.  I only hope if something goes wrong that you won't be out on a limb.

Greybeard - I agree with you 1000 percent.  I also grew up with limited means and we fixed stuff and kept it working rather than disposing of it and getting new each time it broke.  I still live by that philosophy and it was a HUGE decision for me to spend the money to upgrade (as you see, it took almost 15 years!) The pattern business is very volatile as you can imagine with the economy and all the free patterns available.  I have gone through some personal hardships in the past several years and it was very hard for me to get a saw like that.  But it is my business and I am glad I did. 

I just hate to recommend something to a new person where I know they will have the propensity for having hardship.  If it weren't for DeWalt's crummy reputation for customer service, I may have got another one.  But  I just can't recommend it after hearing so many instances of them not caring.  I am happy that Judy is doing well with her saw and my fingers are crossed for her. :)

I agree that getting the best we can afford is a good guide to follow.  Only we know what we want out of the hobby and know how much cost we can justify.

Sheila
Sheila A. Bergner-Landry
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Offline GrayBeard

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 01:59:45 pm »
Sheila and everyone....

It is all about 'finding your niche'! And being happy with your decision.

Some need a 'production tool' and others like me need a 'hobby tool'.
I neither need or desire a 'production tool' for what I do. I will not create a new 'career' for my self at my age with the resulting restrictions and hassles. If I decide not to scroll for a few weeks and do something else I am perfectly happy with that. I would hate to be 'under the gun' to produce orders for deadlines. Too many years of that in the printing business!

I just came home from the vet's office with the kittens. It just so happens that the vet who owns the clinic is also a woodworker. I took a portrait of a kitten to show him and he immediately asked if I would like to display it and leave some cards. So I agreed. What may come of it I do not know but I will not be a servant to my saw and 'customers'.
IF they want something done and I can accommodate them that is fine. If they call me on Monday and want a custom portrait of their pet on Friday...No Go!

With me this is and always will be a hobby...NOT a business.
Everyone should sit down and truly think through what they want from this hobby, Satisfaction, Acclaim or Money and choose their tools according to that end and their resources at the present, not according to what they THINK they might be able to have in the future

~~~GrayBeard~~~

I never really wanted to grow up....All I wanted was to be able to reach the cookie jar...and play with my DW 788

Offline spiderman

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 03:03:03 pm »
Nice write up Sheila,  You know the mess I went through :)  I thought I wanted the Excaliber too but had so much trouble with it that I took it back and bought a new Delta (which is the same as the DeWalt) It is working fine for me.  The question is do you suppose the Excaliber that I and cyber
Ghost bought were LEMONS? We bought them from the same place. I wanted to buy local because of price, service, parts etc?

Judy My excaliber was working just find up to know I took mine in to get fix and if this is not fix right i'm going to ask for a new one or get my money back and then get a excaliber from sysco or whatever that website was again.  That dewalt dw788 type 2 scroll saw year 2010 model  was working fine for long time until around april of this year when it started to viberate and getting loud just like the excaliber was doing when not at all the way full speed.  When the dewalt at full speed that where it gets loud and start to viberate.     I wish I could get  a laser scroll saw....   

SPIDERMAN THE KING OF THE WEB

Offline Rapid Roger

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 07:22:46 pm »
You guys know me, I sometimes go against the grain.........

I say NO, it will not make you a better scroller. Not even twice as much better not to mention five times. Only practice will do that. I have done, and seen others do some very fine work with the less expensive saws.
There is nothing in the world that will improve your cutting and finishing more than education and practice, practice, practice! I have owned three saws over the years (I now have a DW 788) and each one has made cutting easier and somewhat faster but, I can't say any of them made my work any better.
No saw, blade, or finishing method will make a project any better than what you are doing now. You just need experience.
You can get the education you need on this site just by asking questions now, you just need to get some saw dust on your knees.  ;)

Just my two cents worth.

Rog
An ounce of responsablity is worth 10 pounds of state and fedral laws.

math2010

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 07:44:47 pm »
Last year, when i bought my first scrollsaw, I thought: "There's a great deal (90$ (regular price 229$) fo a Mastercraft). I'll buy it to try." I scroll few weeks and it was really bad. I went to the store and they gave me another one. Same thing. I thought " Ok, I'm probably the problem". I took a class and I realise that I wasn't the problem... The scrollsaw was the real problem. So now I'm looking to buy a new one. So I lost near 100$ because I wanted to learn with a cheap one. So, in my opinion, I think Sheila is right. A quality tool will make the hobby more interesting and easier to learn.

Offline Intarsia92

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2011, 08:46:15 pm »

I agree 100% what Shelia and GrayBeard said and even agree, for the most part, with Roger.  Nothing can replace practice, however, I do think a better saw makes cutting more fun and allows you to concentrate on the cutting instead of fighting the saw, therefore, makes you a better scroller in that regard.

I completed my first Segmentation Intarsia using a Dremel vibrating type SS that I had since I was a young kid and I knew, after that, I needed something better if I was to enjoy scroll sawing.
 
I was able to try the RBI Hawk and the Hegner 22? at the LA Co. Fair in 1991, it was the only two saws there and both saws were a pleasure to use. I choose the Hegner over the Hawk, even though it was considerably more expensive, because it had a quick tension release up front, less vibration and the reputation for quality, according to everything I read.

I used the 22? Multimax for a couple of years and was very satisfied, however that was before I got the opportunity to try a Hegner, 20" Polymax. (The Polymax is Hegner?s Commercial Grade scroll saw and is used in shops where they run 12 hours a day every day and comes with a manufacturer?s seven-year warranty.) After using it, along with my 22? SS for a couple of weeks, I was convinced it was a much better saw and made the trade.

The Polymax was eight years old when I acquired it, but looked like it came straight from the factory and had never been used. I?ve had it Seventeen years and have made over 400 Intarsia?s with it and have never had to replace any parts. I gave up the variable speed motor and the quick-change blade changing mechanism I had on the 22? saw for a heavy duty, quiet and smooth cutting machine. 

The Polymax?s mainframe parts are all cast Iron. And, the saw weighs 104 pounds, which deadens almost all vibration. It has two stroke settings, which gives it a total of eight speeds. The long stroke is best for nearly all scroll work and the short stroke provides increased sawing control and smoothness when cutting thin and light materials, such as wood veneer or single layer sheet metal.

Bottom Line, Is there any real advantage in buying an expensive saw for the average scroller?

For the average scroller, that only scrolls occasionally, probably would be happy with a GOOD quality saw, however, I think having a better quality Scrollsaw, that has never needed service, is a real advantage and has made my scrolling much more pleasurable.
 
That said, I feel the experience I?ve acquired over the past 19 plus years of making Intarsia?s is what gets the credit for the quality of my work. 

Would I make the purchase again?  You bet, in a minute.  I?ve made enough from it to pay for it many times over.
Al

Hegner 20" Polymax

Offline geneVG

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2011, 10:17:32 pm »
Has anyone ever had a Delta, made by Dewalt.  I have a chance to buy a 20 inch delta with stand and light for $400.00.  Any feed back would be nice.

gene
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Offline dgman

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2011, 10:19:33 pm »
Hey Gene, That Delta model is exactly like the DeWalt. Just different color and emblems. That is a great price!
Dan In Southern California

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2011, 11:01:38 pm »
Gene,

I have the Delta 40-690, the clone of the 788.  It's my first saw so I have nothing to compare it to but it works fine for me. 

Don't know how the repair facilities are now that Delta is separated from Dewalt but Dewalt parts should fit the Delta.  Does anyone know about the Delta repair facilities?

Jim
Using a Delta 40-690 in the Montreal, Quebec (Canada) area

Offline KarlB

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2011, 11:13:42 pm »
As you've read there are advantages in an expensive saw.  I would have a top of the line saw if I had the money to do it. 

When I started out I started with a used Dremel 3 1/2" blade saw, then updated to a Pro-Tech 16" saw (twice), then to a Craftsman 18" saw and now currently to a used DeWalt 20" saw.  I've stuck with the hobby over the years so I always wanted a better saw.  I have made very little money over the years, but I've made a number of people (mostly family) happy with gifts.

I think you'll either be happy with where you're at with your saw or eventually find you'll want and need that more expensive saw as you progress in your hobby.

Karl

Offline geneVG

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Re: Any real advantage in an expensive saw
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2011, 11:26:09 pm »
Are there any main problems with the delta that i need to look out for?  I really need a deep throat saw for some of the cutting I want to do this winter.  And I am really thinking that this saw would be the one for me.  Thanks for all the input on the saw.

gene
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