Steve's Copyright message

[northie66]

There may be another post in here about this, but if it is I can't find it.

Am I the only one that doesn't understand the post?  What is it we are posting that we shouldn't?  Certain patterns?  Pictures of stuff that we did that is copyright?  I don't get it.

Maybe I'm wrong but here's my plan:  Continue to post whatever I want and wait to be told to take it off.  I don't know what else to do... besides, never post any pictures... which is what I think some people will do.

[kalipbean]

Well I posted a picture of a pattern I laid out on some baltic berch (wood and all) and that was removed. It was a free pattern from one of the Scroll Saw mags and it was removed. So if I cant post that, how can I post a picture when its done, because that would be about the same thing?

[sgood]

Hi Janet, sorry for the confusion. I'll try to do better here. It's okay to post pictures of finished projects. It's usually okay to post a pattern for a project if you designed the pattern. If you designed the pattern and it contains trademarked images then you cannot upload it.

If anyone posts a pattern that does not belong to them that is bad. It does not matter if the pattern was free or commercial. It belongs to someone else and they have the right to control where it is delivered. I have to error on the side of caution here and will remove anything that might be considered a copyright violation.

I know you mean well but it is not okay to post what ever you want and just have it removed. You have never posted anything wrong so this is not directed at you personally. There are serious liability consequences on me to make sure everyone understands what they can and cannot upload.  I have been contacted by lawyers. Sites like mine are watched. They do not have a sense of humor.

If it continues to happen I only have two choices. Disable all file uploads or take the forum down. I don't want to do either so it's best if I can get everyone to understand what they can and cannot do. Anything I say about this sounds harsh and I hate that but I have no choice but to be very serious about this subject.

[northie66]

Steve - I was thinking of my "It's 5 O'clock Somewhere" thing I designed the pattern and posted the picture of the finished project.  I tried to sell it on my etsy store and was told that the words are copyright.  So I guess this would be a no-no to post on your site also?

OK, I didn't mean to sound arrogant in my post.  I hope it wasn't taken that way.  I think I understand better now and I will do my best to obide by your rules.  I won't knowingly post anything I shouldn't... that's for sure.  I know it's not your fault but I think it's kind of sad that a lot of people will now refrain from posting pictures.

[Rightarm]

    I'll say it again. To many rules. No ones fault. It's were we have ended up in this world. "To be Politically Correct, we must be Correct Politically"! Dave

[GrayBeard]

Another thing I am getting out of all this discussion is that I need to keep better track of the patterns I download, where I got them and the designer's name!

That way I can cut a project, finish it and photograph it. Then I should be able to post the photo here (using a low resolution and a slightly skewed format) and use a 'disclaimer' such as ...

"XYZ Project, cut from a pattern by "Joe Schklumpf"

Does this sound like it will work and avoid any legal entanglements?

Dam I hate lawyers! (with the possible exception of those who are 'scrollers')

~~~GB~~~

[jimbo]

The books I have with patterns in states I can cut and sell any pattern in the book but can not sell the pattern, if I post it on this forum the person who down loads it does not know that and may sell them. if some one asks me for a pattern I will e-mail but not post, and I have had many requests
Jimbo

[WigWag Workshop]

Wait What..... "It's 5 O'clock Somewhere" is copyrighted?   

[boxmaker]

When I make a project that I am going to sell at a craft show or a consignment shop, I always put a little paper with the project that says Pattern Designed By: (Designer).  We have to try and put ourselves in Steves position, he is the one going to get in trouble for the copyright infringement. We all need to pay better attention to what we post, losing this forum is the last thing I think any of us want, and I know Steve feels the same way. When I post a project I try to always post, this is a project I cut from one of (whoever the Designer may be patterns). I know I do not understand the copyright laws very well, what I have never understood is when I buy a book or a magazine and it says I can make three copies of the pattern to make projects for personal use, does that mean I can't sell any of them or can I sell only three of that project. Could someone please explain this. Can I sell more than three projects or is that violating copyright. I am as confused as everyone else.

                                                Mark

[Judy Hunter]

Thank you Mark, that was the exact question I wanted to ask.  If a pattern or book says,"The patterns contain herein are copyrighted by the authors. Readers may make copies of these patterns for personal use".  Of course I know I can't sell or even give away the patterns BUT can I make as many of the finished piece as I want and sell those finished pieces??  If not.....a lot of us are in deep doo doo.

[KarlB]

This is what I get from this whole thing:

1) You cannot post an image of a pattern unless you: a) own it or: b) have permission of the designer.

2) You can post an image of your finished item as long as you do not do so in such a way as the image could result in the copying of the image and be able to produce another pattern from it.

3) You can make any pattern and any image for your own personal use without recourse.

4) You cannot make and sell an item derived from a copyrighted image without getting explicit permission from the person, persons, company, University, etc. (Usually this is a contract between you and the same above.)

5)  For the forum I'd say:  If in doubt, leave it out. IMHO

I am not a lawyer, but these seem logical to me.

Does this sound about right Steve?

Karl

[julief]

The notation in the magazines and books tell the professional copy services that you can make 10 copies for personal use.  You can make as many projects you want from copies with the exception of mass production.  You are restricted from making more than ten copies at a time so you are not selling the patterns.  You will notice in the catalogs and on websites of pattern makers that their photos are slightly offset.  In otherwords, the item is tilted for the purpose of taking the picture.  This keeps you from just printing the picture and blowing it up to make your own pattern.

[Russ C]

Julief pretty well posted it for you Mark and Judy. "The notation in the magazines and books tell the professional copy services that you can make 10 copies for personal use.  You can make as many projects you want from copies with the exception of mass production.  You are restricted from making more than ten copies at a time so you are not selling the patterns." 

[dunk]

@KarlB, et al.

3) You can make any pattern and any image for your own personal use without recourse.

No this is not accurate.  You may not even design your own pattern for personal use of a copyrighted image.  If you know an item is copyrighted you are not allowed to make a pattern of the image unless you contact the copyright holder and gain permission.  This is why you cannot post patterns of NFL logos, University logos, Disney patterns etc.

[northie66]

I have an idea... why don't we just stop posting pictures on this forum.  If we want someone to see a picture, put it on photobucket or something and post the link.  Would that then take the problem away from Steve?