outdoor signs

[justsomeguy]

Hello everyone, i've been a long time lurker here at the forums and have learnt a great deal from all the people around here with so much knowledge...i'm not one for usually posting but i can't find the answer anywhere around here for the question i have...

i am going to be making a outdoor sign for a friend of mine. they would like a nice scrolling fretwork piece to hang at their camp. my question is do you guys think i can make this out of the normal baltic birch ply i use or should i go with a different kind of wood? i would like to stick with the BB if possible. also i love to use danish oil, i use it for pretty much all of my work...can this be used for a outdoor project?

this is what i was thinking....do my piece, finish it with danish oil. but where i'm stuck is what kind of finish to put on it after the danish oil i.e. lacquer, varathane, etc. etc.   after applying that i was thinking of some tompsons outdoor water sealer that is used on decks ? think that would work? if not any other ideas? what would hold up to the rain, humidity, and weather???

i would tell my friend to bring it inside for the winter since we are up in northern ontario canada and our winters are brutal..

thank you all for any and all suggestions....

dan

[Jim Finn]

For what it is worth, Baltic Birch ply is made with waterproof glue.
The sun is worse on wood than snow is.  Latex outdoor paint without tint dries clear and provides some protection from the sun and weather.

[Al W]

Greetings Dan, and welcome to the forum.

I have a couple of cutting that have been "outside" for the last year or so and seem to doing quite well.  These were treated with Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) and mineral spirits, and then hit with a coat of poly.

No problems yet.

Give it a go, and let us know.

Al

[justsomeguy]

thanks for the quick reply guys...it's greatly appreciated. i didn't know that bb was made with waterproof glue but thinking about it it does make sense.. so i guess the main thing is hitting it with the outdoor poly to protect it? the piece is probably going to be made out of 1/2 inch BB with another piece of 1/2 inch as a backer board so it hopefully wont warp or twist with the drastic weather changes we get up here even in the summer time. at night our temps drop considerably compared to the days. i was thinking at first about using 1/4 inch for the fretwork piece and 1/2 for the backer board but then thought about maybe upping the fretwork piece to 1/2 ..

now that jim mentioned it that's another thing that's in my head is how the danish oil will hold up in the sun even with the outdoor poly on it .. think it will fade? the person really wants to have the wood look and it not be painted. and i hate staining so my really only option to get a bit of colour in it would be the danish oil i'm thinking...

[bettyswood]

Sounds nice, good luck with the finish.  Post a picture when you are done, we would love to see it.

[julief]

I, too, am a big fan of Danish Oil.  Since the piece is going to be outside, make sure it is well sealed.  You might want to dip it a couple of times to make sure to get in all the cracks and crevices.

[tas2181]

I've done a few camper signs and cabin signs. Usually I use 3/4 inch cedar boards for the cut out piece and back with painted 1/4 exterior ply for the backer. I then put a couple of coats of exterior waterbased poly on to seal everything. If you use Danish oil make sure it is thoroughly dry before coating with the  waterbased poly or use a oil based exterior spar varnish. I found the poly or varnish darkens the cedar enough that the oil would not really be needed. Experiment with some small pieces to see if you like it. The spar varnish will turn an amber color over time while the exterior poly stays more clear.

PS: Make sure you use an exterior wood glue to attach the backer to the face.

[EIEIO]

Check the labels. Polyurethane is meant for indoor pieces; spar urethane is the outdoor version - better with UV I think.

You might think about either shaping and burning the outer edge or using a blank with the bark still on it (basswood is sold like that) to match the camping theme.

[julief]

Right on the money, Ray.  Spar urethane has a UV protectant that keeps your piece from yellowing.

[justsomeguy]

Thank you everyone for such awesome replies. i will def be looking into the correct spar urethane and see what i can find up here to keep it nicely protected. it's awesome to know that the BB will hold up outside if protected properly. i am also going to check out a couple different kinds of woods that are not outrageously priced to see what else would look nice for outdoors...i like the idea of cedar boards that was mentioned, i just have to see what kind of prices they charge for a decent width piece. i've also never heard of the clear outdoor paint before...

there was also a mention about dipping the piece...was this meant to dip it in the urethane? if so how does that work? do you mean like bathing the piece? or actually dipping it? if so is there tricks not to get drip marks on the workpiece where it would run and harden? i really like the idea of dipping it in order to fully saturate the piece but it sounds very intimidating because i can think about is a huge run or teardrop down the middle of the piece?

thanks everyone..your help is so greatly appreciated !!!!

[julief]

Actually, I meant to dip it in the Danish oil.  There is a protectant in the Danish Oil as well.  And, yes, Dip It.  I prefer to dip my very detailed pieces to fully coat all the cuts.  Let it dry well and spray it with spar urethane - at least three coats.

[justsomeguy]

Actually, I meant to dip it in the Danish oil.  There is a protectant in the Danish Oil as well.  And, yes, Dip It.  I prefer to dip my very detailed pieces to fully coat all the cuts.  Let it dry well and spray it with spar urethane - at least three coats.

thanks for clarifying, i always try to dip my stuff in danish oil when possible..but always still give it about 4 or 5 coats of lacquer for protection, i find the stuff in the danish oil isn't that great..

thanks again

[alien11]

One other material you might want to investigate is MDO. Several years ago Norm on New Yankee Workshop touted this for outdoor projects. It is what highway dept use for roadside signs. It is plywood-based using waterproof glue and has paper covered faces. The paper provides very smooth surface for painting. I think MDO stands for Medium Density Overlay.

[justsomeguy]

I just wanted to give an update ...i found a great product. it's by rustoleum. spray can called painters touch outdoor clear semi-gloss. i tested it out on a piece i made awhile back and boy o boy it worked awesome ! the silky smooth finish it gave me in 2 quick coats would normally take me 4 or 5 coats of lacquer with sanding with 400 & 600 grit in between! it worked so good i'm contemplating using it with some indoor pieces instead of using lacquer ! only real difference is that it doesn't melt into the previous coat like lacquer does. it sits on top of the previous coat like a shellac would.

anyone use this stuff before? i'm wondering what the long term effects would be and wether it would be beneficial using this instead of lacquer like i usually do?

[BilltheDiver]

justsomeguy,

I apologize up front for correcting, but shellac also melts into the previous coat as lacquer does.  That's why you don't have to sand between coats on either.  Other finishes like polyurethane do not meld into the previous coat.