Stains and Finishes

[Shogun]

Hi folks. The other day a buddy of mine told me that all stains are oil based and that you could put polly or acrylic over top without worry of it not sticking. I would really like to know every ones thoughts or opinions on this because I have always put shellac over stain before clear coating projects.

[daveo]

hi shogun
All stains or (dyes) are not all oil based there are several.
the most common is oil stain of which is actually spirit based and have a binder in it to hold the stain to the wood after the spirit has evaporated.the other most common is water based, but this is normally only used with acrylic finishes. you can put most finishes directly on to an oil stain once well dry, but I always find that a solvent based  finish will always enhance the timber grain better.
other stains or dyes include
NGR which are non grain raising and are based on highly volatile solvents, but dry very quickly.
NST which are non strike stains, and usually restricted to commerial production, where speed is essential, but these are only for sraying on and dry in minutes.
others are (matching tints and dyes),(aniline dyes),(vandyke crystals) and the list goes on.
 HTH
Dave

[BilltheDiver]

Good answer Daveo!  Shogun, I have used a lot of different stains, dyes and finishes.  That said I usually rely on an oil based stain or dye followed by shellac or lacquer.  Water based causes raising the grain, and I don't like to have to sand again.  Shellac and Lacquer dry in a few minutes and are easy to use.  Another good thing to know is that both lacquer and shellac do not require sanding between coats (other than for removing defects) because in each case the new coat partially dissolves the prior one.  Rattlecans are convenient for both for small projects.

[Shogun]

Thank you guys. This helps and confirms my thoughts.

[Rapid Roger]

Good answer Daveo!  Shogun, I have used a lot of different stains, dyes and finishes.  That said I usually rely on an oil based stain or dye followed by shellac or lacquer.  Water based causes raising the grain, and I don't like to have to sand again.  Shellac and Lacquer dry in a few minutes and are easy to use.  Another good thing to know is that both lacquer and shellac do not require sanding between coats (other than for removing defects) because in each case the new coat partially dissolves the prior one.  Rattlecans are convenient for both for small projects.

Bill,

I understand your concern about water based stains or finishes raising the grain and have to re sand an item. One thing that helps this quite a lot is to wipe the item down with plain water first. Don't saturate the wood but get it wet all over and wipe it down with a paper towel or something and let it dry and raise the grain first and then re sand before putting the stain on.
Hope that helps as water based stains and finishes will dry faster than oil based most of the time. I use both types of stains and have fairly good luck with both.
Also if you put on a coat of 1# cut of shellac it helps stop blotching of more open pore woods and the grain raising problem too with either of these bases.

Rog

[BilltheDiver]

Roger, I know you are right, but I still prefer just to avoid the water based stains.  I just built a 7 foot tall shaker floor clock for my wife out of solid cherry, and since she wanted it dark, I used an aniline dye dissolved in denatured alcohol.  For larger projects this is my favorite method.  On furniture made of poplar, I like the results of gel stains to limit the blotching.