iS it just me or.....

[Keefie]

you hit the nail on the head Dave, we, in the U.K. can't get copies of the magazine without paying excessive postal charges to have it delivered. An online version we could download would be fantastic.

Keith.

[rob roy]

Quite agree with you Keefie and Dave as well.
Rob Roy.

[EIEIO]

well I think some sort of on line publication would be brilliant, bearing in mind we do not have anything over here in the UK
Dave

What if maybe once per month we assembled say 3-4 projects in each area and let the members vote on their favorites, then assemble the winning favorites in a monthly posting. I don't know if it would have any staying power, but it might be fun to try. We should have the links to all postings available so there would not need to be any duplication of the postings. A little editing work, but not too strenuous. Maybe best in each category  - portrait, intarsia, fretwork, utensil, toy, tip/tutorial, funny joke (GB gets the honorary PhD in that category). 

[countryscroller]

To add to that, if it is hard to add categories to the main page here, switch one that isn't used as much to one that says like "Contest Entries" or something. Then when someone posts a project they name it whatever the project is and what category for the contest it is. Unless it is easier to add categories for each one, idk. Just a thought.

[Pinelog]

Here's an idea... Paper magazines with online site and monthly online publications of bonus patterns, materials, etc.  
OR publish electronically with mailed patterns to subscribers.

It would be nice to see them move into this century with publishing to take advantage of current technology.  

[mikeBuk]

Another UK member here who agrees with the online idea, we have nothing here (that I have found), and spend all of my time researching through US sites for scroll and other woodworking projects.

[EIEIO]

Let's say we got the Polling working, people submit projects for consideration, and the members vote on best-of-month in each category (maybe Fretwork, Portraits, Intarsia, Toys, Boxes&Bowls, Utensils, whatever else we decide). Would winners be willing to make an extended presentation of those best-of-month postings? Maybe pictures and a write-up of how the object was made, or a video of the process - it would look more like a magazine article, but would be uploaded on this site.

Maybe also a monthly article on one member's workshop and some things they've done (Tips & Tricks).

[CharlesDearing]

Well, as some of you know, I and my brother have been working on a pattern website...and I would like to offer part of that site to be an online magazine.  Since I've never done anything like that I would like...in major detail yet worded simply...a list of what you would like to see in this e-magazine.  The main parts that I know nothing about are
1- How to get pattern designers to contribute
2- Where to get the tips and tricks from people
3- How to get advertisers to advertise on the site
4- How to fairly pay all who contribute to the site (designs and labor of maintaining what they're being asked to do)
Many aspects of magazines that I have no clue how to do.  One big roadblock is how much it costs to advertise in the two scroll sawing magazines.  It literally costs hundreds and thousands to do that.
I am being sincere in saying that i want to be the guy who houses the online magazine/patterns-for-sale site. 

[CharlesDearing]

That whole post may have come out wrong lol.  I didn't mean "let me do it...me me me...".  I meant that I'd like to be involved it making it happen and would be happy to play a large part in that.  My intentions are sincere and I'd love to be a part of giving that much more to the scrollsawing community. I feel like virtually every venture I've set out on has ended in failure so maybe I can be of worth in that department.

[EIEIO]

Charlie - a grand offer, but I don't know that this would lead to a lot of pattern sales. No reason they could not be offered for sale, but the patterns I've seen here are mainly requested as needed and then several get posted on a volunteer basis. The only payment is when a pattern is cut and posted with a credit toward the developer (no $$$, but  all bragging rights).

The Brag Forum posts a lot of completed projects with just a sentence or two of detail. I'd think a part of the on-line mag would be collections of those projects with extended details, as usually shown in the printed mags. At first, those would be contributed by the author. Maybe eventually there could be compensation, but not until the mag were stable.

A few other features could be developed like the Coffee Shop joke, product reviews, or details of a member's shop.

I have a niece that is an editor for a site with articles on building topics, with advertisers from the building trades. I don't think they do a monthly - it's more like a stream of commissioned articles - and I think it's a hard job to keep it funded. I will ask her for some details about operational issues.

Our community already has lots of active members, and some of the commercial advertisers are members as well. Advertising may not need to be very expensive - less than printed, and maybe easier to verify value.

1- How to get pattern designers to contribute - some do it now for free. it's pride of creation.
2- Where to get the tips and tricks from people - ditto. Add a monthly shop article and tips will be part of the story.
3- How to get advertisers to advertise on the site - prove to them there is good value here.
4- How to fairly pay all who contribute to the site (designs and labor of maintaining what they're being asked to do) - besides advertising revenue, if the mag has value, members may eventually pay a fee. if it does not have value, it will die a natural death. I suspect ad revenues could support it w/o member fees.

Would you be willing or able to get a site operational w/o initial funding or guarantee of compensation? Can you write a business plan to see the cost of operation, estimate cost to advertise, and approach advertisers for some response/commitment? Do you have a web site up now that we could look at?

[CharlesDearing]

Agreed.  As I said, I have little to no knowledge of how to do it.  I'd like to make it clear thought that I wasn't expecting to boost my personal pattern sales from it lol.   I thought it could, perhaps, be a portion of the pattern site being made.  It may have to be a separate site.  I'm just looking for new ventures within the community.  I may very well not be the best guy for the job by any means, but would like to help if I can. 
I have to say though...how would that site be any different than what we're doing right here?  Many patterns, advice, questions answered, tips, etc are offered here and other forums.  What am I missing?

[EIEIO]

Here's how I see it, but I'm open to correction.

Today we have lots of "Excellent - thanks for sharing" - almost like a "Participated" trophy. Voting on the best of the month would highlight the projects that people like best.

Today we have a photo plus one or two sentences about a project. A winning project would be posted in the monthly mag as an article written in a template, including searchable key words, material, cutting blade, pattern, method, framing, finishing, tips, and any other details the author provides. The article could also include any questions/answers from the original posting. This takes some editing to get it right, so someone would need to put in a few hours/month to edit articles.

Each month could have a searchable index so you can go back to find an article. This is a little different than the search we have now.

Each month could have some continuing features, like Coffee Shop jokes, cartoons, scroll saw technology update, vendor contacts, case studies, etc.

Maybe advertisers could take turns contributing an article about their product - like an advertisement but using the article template. They could link to their own pages (hyperlinks) inside the article.

So what we'd have that we don't have today:

• a monthly (or quarterly?) issue that members could go to rather than paying a subscription for printed magazines or overseas shipping cost
• best-of-month article content in several forums that is determined by member voting
• vendor-contributed articles (like infomercials - written/video articles)
• up-to-date vendor contact and web site links
• regular features related to scroll sawing
• searchable content
• table of contents and index per issue
• downloadable printable patterns (pdf format?) for each article (no charge)
• downloadable printable patterns (pdf format?) for sale at a reasonable rate
• maybe for-fee larger format printed patterns like the magazine inserts, or instructions for having prints made locally
• paid vendor advertising

It is interesting that something like the Wood Toxicity Chart could have a link in every issue, but would consume only one block of resources (all links hit the same page), and those pages may be hosted by us or some other entity.

Editors would have to scrub the content so nobody sneaks a non-member vendor link into an article. That protects the value of the member vendors' contributions. Editing would also be needed to get the article templates reasonable complete. And Case Studies may be a special entry that talks about some problem, an approach to fix it, and the results. For example, shop safety, dust collection, electrical distribution, lighting, ventilation, bench design, saw problems, ...

Any thought from others?

 

[sgood]

Hi Folks, most of you know that I don't participate in the forums too often. That's intentional because I want this forum to be a place for the readers. I was asked to participate in this thread so I though I would put my thoughts in.

I don't subscribe to any magazines any longer. I do buy them off the rack.

Traditional publishing is going through major challenges right now. They are competing with the internet for their readers attention. That's not easy. A magazine needs to give value that makes the reader feel compelled to pay and wait for the product to arrive at their mailbox. The internet has that instant gratification thing going for it. 

In the case for the two scroll saw magazines I think they do offer that extra value. The Christmas issue alone is worth the price of a subscription. Like some of you I don't do much intarsia. The truth is I have not cut a pattern out of any magazine in years. That's only because I don't have the time. There are many that I would cut if I didn't spend so much time keeping my blog running. Like Sheila I think it would be a shame if we lost the magazines.

The idea of an online magazine sounds cool but there are issues that can be daunting. The legal issues are more challenging than they may look. Take it from a guy who has been contacted by lawyers more than once. There are people out there that watch everything we do and will protect their content. That's fine because they deserve to be protected. The problem is that it can be very difficult to know when you have crossed the line. I'll give you an example from my past.

I designed a pattern requested from one of my readers. They wanted a cross for a wedding. It needed to be two parts that could be assembled during the ceremony as a sign of unity. Sounded like a great idea and one that many of my readers could use. I designed it and posted it on my blog. In a very short time a letter arrived from a lawyer. I won't go into details of the letter but just let me say the financial consequences could have been severe.

I thought there was no way that someone could possibly have a patent on a cross. I was wrong. Here is the patent number. US D619926 S1. We can debate the patent laws but the fact is the person did have protection and a lawyer who was willing to take his case. I have had other also but it's best that I just keep them to myself. In none of these cases did I realize I might be doing something wrong. I strongly support artists right to protect their product.

Because of these very serious issues I would not be able to support the use of this forum as content for an online magazine. It's not that I would not support an online magazine. I just can't let the forum be used as content for it. The forum already puts me at some level of risk. I have control of that risk so I'm willing to accept it.

[EIEIO]

I checked with an editor from another on line mag. She says at a minimum you'd need an Editor, a Web Developer, and a Salesman to maintain such a magazine.

Using this site as a source for material, but operating on an independent site (Steve's concerns), she things it could be viable.

So it's up to a team to form up and decide to do it or not. I'm willing to serve as editor and to help with Web design. Charlie has said he's interested. Anyone else out there? IBMer - any interest in supporting the web design?

[GrayBeard]

Well said, Mr. Good!

Only those of us who have dealt with the issues of patent & copyrights can fully understand the consequences of a 'simple mistake".

My take on the 'online magazine' is that there is most likely no single member of this group who is willing to expend the time, invest the money and reap questionable results for their efforts.
All members should be happy with what we have here and not try to fix what ain't broke.

I would think that the idea of an online magazine has been fully investigated by the two publishers and found too daunting even for those who have the staff, resources and contacts.

~~~GB~~~