Author Topic: Copyright question  (Read 2376 times)

jimqwerty

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Copyright question
« on: January 20, 2014, 05:23:51 pm »
I have been lurking around the forum for awhile but this is my first post.

For several years, I have made jigsaw puzzles from old Christmas cards and old calendars. I have always used them for gifts and have never sold any. A friend of my wife received one as a Christmas gift this year. She has a shop that sells a little bit of everything and would like me to provide several puzzles that she could sell on consignment.

I don?t mind cutting the puzzles for gifts but I?m not sure that I could cut them for sale. Does anyone know if it would be okay to sell the puzzles?

Thanks,

Jim

Offline Danny

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2014, 07:05:58 pm »
Hey Jim....This is going to be a Good Topic.  I also Have used pictures I found here and there either on the Web or out of a Mag.  I have made Many Jigsaw puzzles and have like you given them as gifts OR.  Yes I have been fortunate enough to of sold many.  Never given a thought to Copy-rite thing.  Lets get it going peoples....   Danny  :+}
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Offline Dan26

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2014, 08:06:17 pm »
My understanding, and I'm no expert, is that if the card was purchased then you own it and may use it as you wish as long as you don't claim the artwork to be yours. So, I think it is OK to use. There are some great puzzle makers around and they may be better able to explain.
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Offline dirtrider73068

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2014, 09:38:35 pm »
I would watch for the norman rockwell painting cards those might be copyrighted but I could be wrong if it is should say somewhere on the card if the image has a copyright if not then I say go for it. If the issue comes up that some card you made a puzzle out of check the info on it to see what it was to make sure you don't run into another one.

Offline Danny

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2014, 11:14:49 am »
One more reply....  Back a couple years ago I started taking Pictures of different things and printing them on glossy picture stock.  Came out looking Super and was a Big Hit.  Took Family poses and did the Jig Saw thing.  Only cut them to be 8X10 inches in size.  Used Steve's Method for securing to wood and Scrolling.  Used UR#1 blade.  Anyway  ..............  Danny  :+}
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Offline EIEIO

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2014, 04:40:14 pm »
Copyright prevents you from making a copy of the original - doesn't matter if you sell it or wrap fish in it, you cannot copy it. But if you're attaching the image to a piece of wood (the original, not a copy that you made) then cutting it, you have not violated the copyright.

If it is artist work, and you signed an agreement with the seller, there may be a restriction on modifying it (cutting could be construed as modifying). But pictures from a magazine, calendar, postcard, etc. should be OK.
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Malistar22

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2014, 04:52:13 pm »
EIEIO,

Techincally, you are right when you say you can't copy it, but in practice, that is rarely the case. Fair use policy is a very broad term but applies in many cases, and for hobbyists like us, there is very little concern for repercussions. Selling items in a store is probably breaking copyright laws, but doing a quick search on Etsy for the words "Lord of the Rings" and you'll get roughly 11,000 hits. Granted not all of them would be classic examples of breaking copyright, but most assuredly, the majority of them are and neither New Line Cinema nor Tolkein's estate are going out of their way to stop it.

I'm not suggesting anyone do it, I am merely saying it's being done. Over and over and over again.

Offline GrayBeard

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 09:50:45 pm »
Let's be realistic.
Unless you make 300,000 of these puzzles and have them displayed in Wal~Mart, Target, Toys r Us and on Amazon it is highly unlikely anyone is going to challenge your use of that image.

Several years ago I contacted St. Louis University and told them I wanted to do a scrolled memory book cover for my granddaughter's graduation present and asked if it were permissible to use the school logo. The publications division of the school sent me an email asking that I send them a photo of the finished project and provided me with a link to every conceivable logo they have on file for my use.
I sent them the requested photo, was contacted by the president's executive assistant and received an order for 50 copies of the famous "Billiken" with the SLU blue backing and framed in black for his personal use as gifts for special ocassions.

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jimqwerty

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2014, 10:18:22 pm »
Thank you for all the responses. When I get a chance, I'll make her up some puzzles. She gave me a calendar today with bird pictures printed on a very heavy paper that looks like canvas. It should make great puzzles. It has an extra picture that I can use to experiment with since I have not tried that type of paper before.

Jim

Offline EIEIO

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 10:07:11 am »
EIEIO,

Techincally, you are right when you say you can't copy it, but in practice, that is rarely the case. Fair use policy is a very broad term but applies in many cases, and for hobbyists like us, there is very little concern for repercussions. Selling items in a store is probably breaking copyright laws, but doing a quick search on Etsy for the words "Lord of the Rings" and you'll get roughly 11,000 hits. Granted not all of them would be classic examples of breaking copyright, but most assuredly, the majority of them are and neither New Line Cinema nor Tolkein's estate are going out of their way to stop it.

I'm not suggesting anyone do it, I am merely saying it's being done. Over and over and over again.
"Fair Use" applies to using copyrighted material in a context that would not deny profit to the copyright holder. Using an image with proper credit as illustration in a powerpoint presentation would be Fair Use since the owner might not ever have had access to that audience in that context, although he could still argue it in a lawsuit if he thought it was worth his time. But reproducing an image for sales that could have been captured by the owner, or for which the owner could reasonably collect a license fee, is not "Fair Use". Cutting a picture from a calendar is not a violation (you did not make a copy, just used the copy you bought in a different way).

Because our scroll saw production levels are  low, the chances of getting caught are small unless you are working in a small community. GB got permission to use the school logo for a project that related to the school and for a graduate of the school. In that small community it is likely that even a few items would be noticed and could be an issue. The route he took was both defensible and generated new sales. Best of both worlds.

I've used some images from on-line coloring books to make a pattern, but first asked permission to use them. The owner allowed use, but required that they be credited with the original design. 

It might be easier to ask forgiveness than get permission, but it's cheaper to get permission first.       
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Offline Jim Finn

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 08:06:07 am »


...Several years ago I contacted St. Louis University and told them I wanted to do a scrolled memory book cover for my granddaughter's graduation present and asked if it were permissible to use the school logo. The publications division of the school sent me an email asking that I send them a photo of the finished project and provided me with a link to every conceivable logo they have on file for my use.
I sent them the requested photo, was contacted by the president's executive assistant and received an order for 50 copies of the famous "Billiken" with the SLU blue backing and framed in black for his personal use as gifts for special ocassions.

~~~GB~~~
     I have found an end run around  this copyright issue on some of the boxes I have been selling..  I contacted an on line store that sells items with this certain logo and now I make wooden items with that image for them to sell.  I prefer cutting wood to selling anyway.
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Linda in Phoenix

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Re: Copyright question
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2014, 03:40:32 pm »
Being a scroll saw person, and a juried member of an Artists Guild, I asked the copyright question early on.  Then, as I started doing some of my own designs and creating patterns, I researched further.  The gist I got was: if you copy verbatim someone else's work, you are infringing on their work and/or intellectual rights whether copyrighted or not.  Items marked copyright protected, or items you mass produce and sell, do come under special legal umbrellas and permission must be gotten.  But for the small quantity people that we are:   if you look at someone elses concept and then produce it with your own artistic spin on it, that unique new creation is yours.   For instance, running a copy of a published scrollsaw pattern and selling copies or sharing it with others without their having paid the publisher and/or designer could be called piracy and has legal ramifications---but using a pattern you paid for (individually or in a magazine, etc & as many times as you want) and selling the pieces you make from it, is totally legal and not an infringement because you produced a unique wood piece from the idea. In our litigious "I'm going to sue you" society, using anything copyrighted (including photos online) is a risk---but if you put your own spin on it you just hit the gray area of loopholes and should be fine.   And to be courteous, if you use someone elses concept or design, it never hurts to give them credit.  If I make a piece using a pattern designed by "Dudley DooItRight" and published in XYZ magazine or book, then on the back of the piece I write:  Made by Linda David, Design by Dudley DooItRight.  Let's face it---a pattern or picture or logo is someone elses creation, but what we do artistically changes it to and each one of us do it differently and no 2 pieces of wood allow for 100% identical pieces and honesty goes a long way in proving intentions.

 

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