Selling and staying legal..

[Dustyknees]

Hi all..I supplement my income with my scrollsaw. I do names at $1 a letter,sometime 25 to 50 letters a day when I get the orders.  I would like to sell some of my fretwork on Etsy, Ebay, word of mouth etc..I know I need permission from whoever made the pattern. Does anyone here feel strongly about someone selling a piece made from there pattern?
Does anyone know where there are any vintage patterns that are in the public domain?

I quote "Typically ?public domain? describes literary, musical, artistic and other
creative works which are no longer protected by copyright, alongside others
that never were subject to copyright, and as such those items can be picked up
and turned into valuable commercial products such as books, films, postcards,
prints, calendars, and countless other high profit products.

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated...Jon

[GrayBeard]

Jon...
I may be corrected on this but I think that most patterns you purchase are copyright only in that you cannot sell the pattern itself.
Those things you produce from the pattern are yours to do with what you please, be that giving them away, displaying them or selling them.

Anybody that can substantiate this?

~~~GrayBeard~~~

[Dustyknees]

Graybeard..That is my concern,if someone sees something on Ebay and says "No,It was done from my pattern"  Some pattern makers have told me they don't care if I cut something from their patterns and sell it, others want it kept for personal use only. Thanks..Jon

[scrollgirl]

My thoughts on it are as follows - you can use the pattern for your own personal use and you may sell the projects you make from those patterns, but not the patterns themselves.  I actually encourage people to sell the things they make from my patterns.  I gear many of the designs I do so that people can create them for craft fairs and to sell online.  I love to hear how people do well with my designs at shows!  I also love to see people 'mix and match' designs and use their own creativity modifying my designs.   The thing that I don't like is if someone mass produces my designs mechanically, such as with a CNC Router. To me that isn't what the pattern was intended for.  As long as the items are created by hand, I have no problem at all with people selling finished products.  Of course, it would be great if people gave a little credit, such as "Handcrafted by John Smith, Designed by Sheila Landry" although that isn't mandatory. 

I realize that many people trade purchased patterns, and that is really difficult for me to deal with at times.  My friends tell me I should 'do something about it' when they see this happen to me,  but it is costly and impossible to police everyone.  I allow people's conscience to guide them and I am at peace that that is all I can do.  It hurts in these difficult times, but I feel in my heart that by offering excellent quality patterns, people will support the designers so that they will be able to continue to do what they love - design!

Thanks for letting me express my opinion.

Sheila

[JCoff]

 Any of my patterns can be cut and sold ,  just don't sell the patern itself.

                                                                                Jeff

[Dustyknees]

Hi Sheila..Thanks so much for your thoughts on this. It seems I don't have to much to worry about if I'm not selling the patterns themselves. If I go with designers like you,then I should be ok in what I sell..I just went to your site and am very impressed with what you do. I will definitely be placing an order with you soon!..Thanks again..Jon

[MadHatter]

i tend to agree with the others. ive sold a fair amount of portraits in the past and never had a complaint from the pattern makers because the patterns themselfs were not sold and it was ok to sell the portraits made from the patterns.

selling on eBay and etsy at this time of year is kinda slow ive noticed, ive always had better luck during holidays. there is also a website called ecrater.com, where you can list items for totally free, but im not sure how popular ecrater is. good luck and let us know how you do.

[Terry Jackson]

Have had the discussion with the people who sell patterns.  Some patterns say you can sell the work you create from the pattern but may not sell the pattern.  Some pattern books limit you to 50 copies or less of each pattern but stipulate that you may sell what you create from the pattern. 

Look on pattern seller sites like Wooden Teddy Bear or others, and if it isn't clear they will respond to a specific email question.  Best wishes.
Terry

[Russ C]

It all depends on the patterns (artist) limatations and each one can be different. I have found it (copy limatations) in the front of most magazines. You will also notice the "Note to the proffesional copy service" about how many copies that can be made for personal use. Ten copies, ten patterns, tells me they only want you to make ten reproductions. Take into consideration we have over 1000 members. Each person buys a magazine and makes 10 copies. (1000 x 10 = 10,000). Common sense tells me that is the reason for the limatations on copying the pattern. 

[Dustyknees]

Thanks all..This answers a lot of my questions. I really enjoy this forum, and I learn a lot here..Tip of the hat to Steve for all his efforts!

[Charlie Dearing]

Well, I want it on the record that I applaud you if you sell finished pieces from my patterns.  No, don't sell the patterns, but have a ball on finished pieces.  Like others, I'd rather nobody mass produces mechanically, but designers likely wouldn't get sales if they said ya couldn't make and sell finished cuttings from their patterns.
I've had people email me and say "Man, I made a killing at such and such festival, show, etc with your designs."   Well I am happy for you..honestly!
P.S.- I wish I could get sales of finished pieces from my designs lol.  If it would make you feel better to send me a cut of your profits...I won't stop you

[budprine]

I'll weigh in on how I understand this to work.
The pattern maker has the copyright for the pattern.  He/she created it and is entitled to be compensated for that creative effort.
Assuming you bought or otherwise have permission to use the pattern then you are the creator of the piece made from that pattern.  You own it and you may sell it.
The copyright holder of the pattern should set their price for that pattern knowing full well the pattern will be used to make a product that can be sold for compensation.  If they sell the pattern to a firm that specializes in making products from patterns they should collect their compensation at the time of sale of the pattern. 
One other aspect would be your right to copy the pattern.  I'm assuming you are entitled to make as many copies of the pattern as you wish. Or in the alternative you have bought the pattern for a certain number of copies.

[Isawit]

The way I read the copyright law, the pattern creator owns the rights to the pattern and objects created from the pattern.
This is from Copyright.gov.
"Section 106  of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others to do the following:
To reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords;
To prepare derivative works based upon the work."
I believe whatever you created from the pattern would be considered derivative works.

  

[Charlie Dearing]

Yes, but in the topic of staying legal and which designers allow you to make derivatives... you're ok

[Isawit]

Jon...
I may be corrected on this but I think that most patterns you purchase are copyright only in that you cannot sell the pattern itself.
Those things you produce from the pattern are yours to do with what you please, be that giving them away, displaying them or selling them.

Anybody that can substantiate this?

~~~GrayBeard~~~

I should have used the above quote with my last post.  If a pattern maker gives you permission ( as some of you have in this thread) then of course you can create a work from it. But the pattern creator own the right to the pattern and all derivative works you can't even legally modify a pattern since it is still derived from the orignal pattern. Legally you must have permission! If you know who the creator was, it would hurt to ask, but I doubt that many pattern would have a problem with anyone selling objects made from their patterns.