Question About Glue

[Becky]

My brother and nephew are in town from Colorado.  I've made some projects for my nephew (one was Steve's biplane) but my brother said they had been coming apart.  His thought was the dry air in Colorado might have caused the glue to fail. 

I use Titebond II for most things.  I've never heard of anything like this before.  I suspect the problem is more related to how I glue than what brand of glue I use.  I know you don't want to starve the joint but, on the other hand, you don't want to have glue glopping up all over the place.

So my question is two-fold, I guess.  Is there really a difference in glue performance by climate?  If not, what do I need to know about glue that I am obviously missing?  Am I being too short with it?  That seems to be the case if the things are falling apart but it seems I am always wiping up squeeze out.  How do you know how much to use?  Do I need to make my joints looser so I can use more glue?

It just doesn't make sense to me that a national brand of glue doesn't work in Colorado.  I have to be doing something wrong on my end.  I would really be grateful for any tips.

[Rightarm]

     Becky. I ran across the same thing glueing up different types of wood. I've used Elemers, titebond, and gorilla glues. I never had any luck using gorilla glue on walnut. But titebond seems to work alright. Elmers works on pine really well. I have found that different glues work on different woods. The only thing I can come up with, is the reaction with the glues and the
oils in the wood. Good luck. Dave

[mouse]

Hi Becky,
The dry air may be causing the wood to shrink and pulling the joints apart,also as mentioned earlier the oils in some woods make them difficult to glue.
Your joints need to be as tight as possible, as filling poor joints with glue is a waste of time. Coat both surfaces with glue then clamp together for recommended time.Wipe off excess glue while still wet.
HTH

[dunk]

Some woods will not accept glue due to oils.  You did not mention type of wood.
I would tend to think if you are getting the surfaces glued, properly, and clamped securely, and letting it cure long enough.  No matter where you put ti the joint will not fail the wood may crack around it but the glued up joint if done properly will be stronger than the wood itself.

I've heard two schools of thought on glue squeeze out.
Wipe off right a way with a damp sponge or q-tips for tight spots.   However folks who are into nice finishes say no do not wipe it away as it may leave behind residual amounts making it difficult to get a good even stain on your project.  They say wait a few minutes and  scrape it of after it begins to harden or even wait until it is fully cured and then scrape away excess.

I tend to agree with the scraping away rather than the wiping away school of thought.

[wdkits1]

Hi Becky
Most types of glues are temperature responsive meaning that they should only be used  when the temperature is optimum. If it is too cold ( glue or parts being glued) or the glue has been allowed to freeze then you will have glue failure. Also the type of joint being glued will determine if failure will occur. Flat sawn wood will hold better than end grain wood. I always use splines, bisquits or dowels for end grain glue-ups for extra strength like the corners of frames.On smaller pieces like the corners of my keepsake boxes I drill a number of small holes where the pieces come together to increase the glue surface.

[GWhit]

I use Weldbond which seems to have a lot more consistancy and flexibility than titebond.  It's drawback for me is keeping things straight when clamping.  It's consistancy lets it slide around a little so you have to watch the alignment closely.  I order Weldbond from Sloans.

Gordon

[Rapid Roger]

I use Titebond I, II, or III on almost everything and have had NO problems. I live in a very humid area (Kansas) which, I would think would have more effect on glue than dry air would.
On oily woods it helps to wipe the joint with assitone or alcohol or any solvent that will cut through the oils and give the joint a dry place for the glue to adhere well. (Redwood is one that I have had problems with.)
I cant see where shrinkage or expansion of the wood pieces that small would effect glue joints. On larger pieces such as table tops, I know humidity, or the lack of, will cause wood movement, and joint failure.

Rog

[dgman]

Hey Becky, The glue you use is only half of the issue. Just as important is how the joint is made up. If your are using a butt joint, about the only thing that will be strong enough for a child's toy would be epoxy. If is just a decorative item just about any glue will be OK. But if is going to be handled and used, like a child's toy, the joint is just as important as the glue  used. If you can't reinforce the joint with screws, nails, mortise and tenon, biscuit's, dowels or splines, than it should not be used for a child's toy.

[Judy Hunter]

Gorilla super glue.  No problems with it so far.  I usually glue after staining.

[Dawie]

I've learnt a lot from Becky's question. Half the glues you guys mention is unknown to me, but intresting to read none the lees.
david

[Becky]

Thanks for all your replies.  Sorry I neglected to name the woods.  One project was basswood and poplar and the other was basswood and paduk (I don't think that's spelled right but you probably can tell what I mean). 

I glued them both in my basement so the temperatures were reasonable. 

It could be that clamping was a fault.  Both projects were pretty unclampable at least as I saw/see it.  How do you clamp oddball shapes?  One was a paino playing bear toy and the other was Steve's biplane.  I know how to clamp things when they are square (clamps from all sides) or flat (a few phone books on top) but how do you clamp a carved bear attached to a flat board?  A standard clamp won't reach in far enough and there's no way to balance a book on top of it!  I did use clamps on many parts of the biplane but didn't see how to use them for all of the joints.

Is there a good resouce on clamping techniques "out there" someplace?

Thanks again for all your suggestions.  The latest gift I gave him was decorative so maybe it will survive.

[Judy Hunter]

I use lots of rubber bands and straps.

[mouse]

Masking tape (think you call it painter/decorators tape), rubber bands, a loop of string twisted with a piece of wood in the middle.

[Becky]

Good ideas.  I'll give that a try next time (probably the masking tape first since I never can seem to find a rubber band around the house).  Thank you.