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General Category => General Scroll Saw Talk => Topic started by: cliveg on April 21, 2011, 08:01:11 am
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hi can anyone tell if the excalibur ex21 you guys talk of is it the same as the axminster tools 1
in the uk axminster do several copys of the hegner like awfs 18 any comments would be great as iam thinking of getting 1 regs clive
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It sure looks like my new EX-21 Clive. Mine is green though. Mine is made by General International. Perhaps you can phone them and ask.
Sheila :)
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In going to the Axminster website I see only 2 differences from my new EX21. First is that my saw is green whereas the one on the Axminster site is white. Secondly, there is a warning label above the test tube holders and mine did not have that label. Other than that, I see no other visible difference. It does have the General International label however, so I would want to believe that it is a genuine Gen. Inst. product if Axminster is a legit retailer.
Mike
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I just got off the phone with Norman Frampton of General International who is in the distribution department. He concurs that Axminster is indeed an authorized dealer of the EX-21 and you can feel secure in knowing that you are getting the genuine article.
Good luck and let us all know how you do! :)
Sheila
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Scrollgirl, did Norm Frampton happen to mention why the Euro version is white? I also happened to notice another difference. The blade inseret hole has a lot of other holes around it on the table. I would guess for sawdust to exit the table surface.
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No, Shadow. I didn't even ask him about the colour. I also noticed the little holes on the table. I expect you are right, that they are for clearing tiny particles of saw dust away. Mine doesn't even have that though I think it is probably a good idea. :)
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The holes are for vacuum attachment for dust removal.
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See, mine doesn't have the place on the underside for the dust removal. That must be an option on the European saws.
Sheila
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thankyou very much will have a talk to axminster on tues
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Interesting concept those holes. And Dunk that makes perfect sense to me now why the holes are there. My saw is only 2 weeks old and does not have that, so it must be a euro option only. I think it's a pretty cool option however because when sawing MDF as I did the other day, my brush got a good workout in brushing all the sawdust off the table. I think I see a possible modification in my future here.
Thanks; Mike
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Why would you buy a heap of junk like excalibur ex21 I am fed up with mine I am going back to my delter
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Wow, Patch. I've had mine for years and love it. What's wrong with yours?
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We went through this discussion with Patch in Sheila's blog on the Lumberjocks forum. Please read the blog post and comments located here to see the conversation: http://lumberjocks.com/scrollgirl/blog/22685
He works full time on his saw cutting 1" wood or thicker and according to him, everybody's Excalibur is going to wear out in a year or two and we will all be wishing we had gone another route although he is unwilling to suggest a better alternative. Since he is pushing the limits of the saw, several people have suggested he get an industrial grade saw but he doesn't comment on that.
It is probably the number one most positively reviewed saw out there. If you search in this forum, and at http://www.scrollsawer.com/forum/ you will find plenty of good reviews to give you a good perspective of the general opinion on this saw.
It's odd that the only 2 people that I can recall that were really unhappy with the saw, both purchased them from Carbatec. One is Patch and the other got his problem remedied when General International stepped in and sent him a brand new saw because of a factory defect that Carbatec would not deal with. Carbatec claims to get their saws direct from the Taiwanese factory and doesn't follow directives from General International. Just a theory here but maybe they set the bar lower and get the saws that don't meet General's quality control standards?
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It seems that the world according to Patch is the old adage, one bad apple spoils the whole barrel. First piece of negativity I've seen since I've joined this forum. Not bad I guess.
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I have been waiting impatiently for Steve's review of the Excalibur I was delighted to see the vid. When I came across Patch's comments I was a bit alarmed as I have decided to get one of these saws. I followed the post back to see what his problems had been.
Now I don't know what he is referring to about alum. And bearings. Is there pivot points in the ex21 where the shafts are just running against a hole in the alum.? First being a machinist and given his hard use, I would think that one could quickly make and install inserts or even rollers , but I'm not looking at it so I don't know. It would appear that how ever these bearings are done, they hold up well in hobby use.
More important, it seems to me that a scroll saw is just the wrong tool for all this 2 inch thick cutting. I do a lot of detail curve cutting for the furniture I make. I use a Band saw with a Carter Stabilizer and 1/8 inch blade. If I were doing the stuff he describes, I think I would do a batch of cutting all the exterior cuts on the band saw (which would also save him some time) then only do the interior cuts on the scroll saw. Of course I don't know the details of what he is doing and that may not work at all for him, but it seems more like ?using the proper tool? to me. A couple of years ago I got involved with a group doing some restores and I was doing piece work cutting out thousands of pieces with some very fine detail. I thought I was going to only do a couple of pieces, but it worked out so well that they decided to replace rather then refinish most of the work and I found my self working 10 to 12 hours a day for more then a year to make all the pieces they wanted. I could have never finished those on a scroll saw, thankfully there were only a few pieces that required inside cuts. I didn't do those. I did the outside cuts then sent the whole batch over to another guy in the group that did a lot of scroll work and had a big Hagar to do it on. He was the one that was going to do the pieces I did, but after a few days, and seeing what I did on the band saw, he shipped everything over to me.
By the way, what I did was not the final product, they were just the ?blanks? that were used to make the final pieces. Sorry to run on off subject about this, but it just seemed like a fit to me.
Craig
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I don't think you ran on at all. The comments you made were interesting and it showed that you had the right idea about which tools were appropriate for certain applications. Deciding this is very important when choosing which tool to buy. You need to look at yourself and the type of cutting you will be doing and make an intelligent decision on your own personal use.
I liked that in Steve's video he also considered this. I also don't do "production work". I am a designer and love to use my saw however, and some days I run it for the entire day. Even my (type 1) DeWalt, which is generally agreed on as a lower grade of saw than the Excalibur gave me over 15 years of good service. I am certain if I was doing the type of cutting that Patch does, it probably would not.
However, with DeWalt's (the company) recent lack of stability and what I have heard from DeWalt owners who recently purchased saws from them, along with my own research, I choose not to get another one when it came time to buy another saw.
I am confident that the Excalibur will be a great saw for me. It already has proven to be much better on so many levels. Ray from Seyco gives impeccable customer service (And you can tell him I said so if you choose to buy a saw from him!) and I highly recommend him as a source. He answers his own emails and his own phone and I have heard only good about his reputation. He already has been there for my questions and concerns, even though I am up here in Canada.
The Excalibur costs a bit more than the DeWalt, and I am not a wealthy woman. But I would rather pay a little more and invest in a product that I will be able to count on for many years of wonderful service (and backed up by the company that made it) than spend less for a product with a questionable track record.
Just my thoughts. :)
Sheila
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I have owned my EX21 for 7 or 8 years. I cut more 3/4" to 1 1/2" wood than anthing else. I use and abuse my saw - sometimes for 8+ hours a day. I have zero complaints. I worked hard to earn the money to buy it and it works hard for me.
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I started out with a DW788 type 2, but finally sold it when I acquired a brand new Hawk 220vs (a 2004 model, but never opened or used). It ran a lot smoother and I liked it except that is was bottom feed only, so today I ordered a new EX21 from Ray at Seyco. I've heard nothing but good comments about the EX21 with the sole exception of Patch's post here.
I believe the differences between the European EX21 and the ones used here in the states are the color, a provision for dust control on the European version (holes in the table), and voltage. Both are made in Taiwan, but I understand under stricter specifications than other saws made off-shore. I know that Ray at Seyco takes new saws out of the box, tests and aligns everything, then puts it back in the box before shipping it to the end buyer.
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I am holding all comments until general gets back to me they are looking into the problems I have had with the saw they are asking for time to look into it so in fairness to them I will comment later in the mean time I am working on a video on the disadvantageous of the saw as in the workings
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Patch, I'd love to see that. Just wondering, I see you have mentioned something about alum. bearings. I don't have an ex yet, so are you saying there are load bearing pivoits where they just run the steel into a hole in the alum? If that is the case, is there enought beef around the hole to make and insert? I'm thinking long term that if this is what you are talking about,I might bore them out and at least make a bearing out of Derin or Bronze.
Craig
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Patch, I'd love to see that. Just wondering, I see you have mentioned something about alum. bearings. I don't have an ex yet, so are you saying there are load bearing pivoits where they just run the steel into a hole in the alum? If that is the case, is there enought beef around the hole to make and insert? I'm thinking long term that if this is what you are talking about,I might bore them out and at least make a bearing out of Derin or Bronze.
Craig
just wait till I can comment I can not say anything at this stage sorry
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfEg7uL2SVM
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A couple of weeks agi I purchased an EX16 from Axminster power tools, they are the genuine Excalibur machine, Axminster came to an arrangement with the manufacturers to have them in white as it's Axminsters "livery" and all their stuff comes in white.I found the machine to be absolutely fantastic to use till 3 days ago, I switched on at about 1/4 speed as I was doing some fine cuts and didn't want to go too fast, the machine gave a couple of really loud knocks before running smoothly. when I went to 3/4 speed for the next cut it was vibrating like mad and shook the whole table, now anything over 1/2 speed and it vibrates badly. I have just phoned Axminster who asked me to check a couple of things on the machine and when I said they were ok they told me they would replace the complete machine as it's only a couple of weeks old and shouldn't vibrate like that. Also the paint is wearing off where the top arm lifts and it rubs (which they also said shouldn't happen) I don't know what the service is like in the U.S. but over here they don't normally change things like that, it usually would go away for repair and we'd end up with a new machine thats been repaired. So plenty of extra brownie points for Axminster Power Tools. I hope it hasn't put you off the Excalibur machines as when it worked it was a really fantastic machine to use.
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It is good you shared your story too, Keefie. We all know that every production run doesn't produce all perfect machines. There are some that get by that are defective. It is just part of manufacturing. What is important to me is how the distributors and manufacturers deal with these defective machines and the customers who get 'stuck' with them. I am happy to hear that you were taken care of properly. I believe that is why you can't always go only by just price when buying a piece of equipment such as this. Customer service and the reputation of the company is just as important. You need to know that they will be there for you down the line and when problems may occur. Thanks for sharing your story with us. I have had my saw for about eight months now and it is still as good as the day I got it. Hopefully it will continue to preform as well as it has for me, but if it doesn't, I know that I can count on good customer service. That means quite a lot. Thanks again for posting, Keefie.
Sheila
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No problem Sheila, I thought Clive should know that the back up service from Axminster cannot be faulted, there was no discussion about trying to fix it, just "we'll replace it with a new one" Now thats what I call service and it is sooooo unusual for a company over here in the UK to do that.
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Well, that is really good to know because I have a lot of people from the UK asking me to recommend a saw and a place to purchase them. It is very difficult for me to do so because I have had no interaction with companies in England. It is great that people like you share both your positive and negative experiences so that I can better direct others. It helps fellow scrollers a lot! :)
Sheila
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I agree Keefie as i also bought my ex21 from Axminster and there customer service has been first class as mine snapped the top connecting rod where Patch was showing that his had threaded a bolt but Axminster asked no Questions and sent out a new one staight away ! then on the new one i blew an internal fuse within half an hour of setting it up , Axminster sent out some new fuses and said if there was any other problems to get back to them ! , all this was a bit inconveniant but that sometimes happens and as Sheila says its how the distibutors deal with it . i have had no real problems with it since " touch wood " (ahh feel better for that :D) but i still have some vibration when i go above above half speed , its not a great problem as i tend to be a slow cutter anyway but i do think i will get in touch with Axminster again to see what they say. Overall i love it ! ;D
Patch , you have obiously have had your problems with yours and i watched your video but i myself and i believe some other scrollers were left scratching there heads at your first comment as you just made a statement and never said what your problem was , it may have been a little more helpful if you had added how you had came to that decision !
Just saying ..Pete ;)
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Well my new EX-21 arrived today and I set it up and I love it. Great saw from Seyco. Now to start scrolling tomorrow, don't have the time today but look out tomorrow. I am a happy camper. :)
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I am getting Emails from a lot of people complaining about this saw
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I am getting Emails from a lot of people complaining about this saw
Funny I don't see many of them around here. How many people are you talking about here? Are you forming a club?
If somebody is planning to buy an EX and you think it's no good, then what saw should they buy instead?
I'm just kidding, I know from our previous conversations you don't answer that last question. My theory is that you don't have an answer because there really is nothing out there (that you know of) which meets your needs . Where does that leave a potential Excalibur purchaser?
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I have to say Patch that nearly every review of the EX21 that i have seen is a positive one and the customer service seems to be excellent, sure if you look at any product there will be some way of improving it , but you are only making bad comments without backing up what you say with facts :
1/ How many people have emailed you ?
2/ What was their problem ?
3/ Why are none of them backing you up on this forum ?
4/ Do you know of a better scroll saw and if yes what makes it better ?
Everybody is entitled to their opinion but a more balanced approach on what wrong with it and whats better out there would be more helpful to all the scrollers out there ! unless of course you have a grudge against the EX21 and you dont want to help other scrollers ?...Pete
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It seems the more popular a product becomes, the more complaints you will hear about. When the DeWalt 788 first came out, It was the best saw in it's price range available. Soon everybody had to have them. Thousand of saws were sold. Now all the problems with the saw are known. The same thing is is happening with the EX saw.
Most people don't realize that the DeWalt 788 and the Excalibur EX 16, 21 and 30 are all related. All these saws were first designed by a company called Summerville Designs in Canada. This co. was producing the Excalibur saws first. DeWalt had Summerville Designs design and build the 788. The two saws were very similar in design, but the 788's were more affordable.
Latter the Excalibur saws were redesigned to compete with the 788, but still retained the same design as the 788. Then they where bought out by General International, which moved the manufacturing of the EX saws to Taiwan. The 788 is now made in Taiwan Also.
In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, that the more popular the EX saws become, the more problems will surface, just like the 788.
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Well I've just got home from Axminster Power tools - with a brand new EX16.The assistant in the shop wanted to look at it to see the prob, he said "thats not right "and phoned Darren in their service department.I went in to see him and he said we'll keep your machine here so we can take it apart and work out what the problem is , but first let me get you new machine.he had his own area with an EX 21 and an EX30 set up on benches so he could Play with them , see how they work and how to adjust them, that way he said if anyone calls in he should know what they are talking about and possibly be able to give an answer to their problem. He asked me what I thought about the machine and its design, I told him there were only 2 design probs that I found and neither were too bad, the first was the air blower could do with another 4 - 5 segments on it so it could come forward further and blow dust away from me instead of at me, his answer to that was to fit 6 new segments onto my new machine (free) my other prob was where I had it mounted on a workbench, and not the proper table for it, the dust extractor pipe was inaccessible to put my adaptor and hose on it. I said if the machines fitting came out at 90deg there would be no problem, his answer to that was to give me a length of flexi hose to fit machines extractor port so it could flex around the bench and then my adaptor and hose would fit. Both probs sorted FOC and not only that he set up the machine's front to rear blade travel for me while i was there. While I was there he said he downloaded some plans to test the machines with, but plans were very basic, so I gave him the web address of Steves site and told him about the plans there. he said he will see about joining this forum too, so all you UK members should soon have an Axminster rep here to discuss probs or machine specs with. Todays trip to Axminster proved my earlier comment, The service and backup from Axminster Power Tools is fantastic, and the staff are friendly and helpful, excellent service, Thank you Axminster Power Tools (and Darren) for your backup service.
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That's Great news Keefie!
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That sounds like it should be named "Seyco East"!!!
I am glad you made the trip and got the problems resolved!
~~~GB~~~
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That is excellent news Keefie ;) so can you purchase new segments for the blower and how easy were they to fit as i may do this myself?
i am pleased for you mate and it only confirms Axminsters aftersales service
well done !..Pete
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It is so good to hear all the feedback here! Great way to let others know so they can make good decisions. Way to go everyone! :)
Sheila
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Hi BigPete, Yes , you can get the segments for the blower. If you bend the blower as far as it will go then just push it that little bit more they seperate and the new ones just pop back together. If you call Axminster after the hols then ask to speak to Darren Peach, he's the one who helped me and he had loads of them just lying on his bench, If you asked him for the part number so you could order some he would probably just send you some foc. The new machine has been tested and is working better than first one ever did, there is zero front to back blade movement I can stand a pound coin behind the blade and it doesn't move whereas the old machine still had between 1/16 and 1/8th inch movement there, and the blade is really steady as you start a cut but on old machine there was little bit of wobble so awkward to line up blade to start cut. All in all a good machine with excellent backup service from Axminster too, what more can you ask for.
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SUPERB ! mate i will contact them after hols.
Now you have a saw that is in tip top working order we will be expecting some great things from you ! ;) Merry Christmas ....Pete
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SUPERB ! mate i will contact them after hols.
Now you have a saw that is in tip top working order we will be expecting some great things from you ! ;) Merry Christmas ....Pete
Yeah I got air hose for my ex-21 that is 40" long........................................................
I made it myself... works great.... blows good...
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hi all,
Got my ex-21 a couple of weeks ago and set ip up over the xmas hols.
It seems fine to me so far cuts great and feels easy to use.
But there will always be faults here and there as long as the makers improve on these and take on board what people are saying, especially on forums like this as these members are the life blood of the craft.
If users are treated with good care from the wholesallers and manufacturers that is all they can ask as they pay hard earned cash for this hobby.
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Well I've just got home from Axminster Power tools - with a brand new EX16.The assistant in the shop wanted to look at it to see the prob, he said "thats not right "and phoned Darren in their service department.I went in to see him and he said we'll keep your machine here so we can take it apart and work out what the problem is , but first let me get you new machine.he had his own area with an EX 21 and an EX30 set up on benches so he could Play with them , see how they work and how to adjust them, that way he said if anyone calls in he should know what they are talking about and possibly be able to give an answer to their problem. He asked me what I thought about the machine and its design, I told him there were only 2 design probs that I found and neither were too bad, the first was the air blower could do with another 4 - 5 segments on it so it could come forward further and blow dust away from me instead of at me, his answer to that was to fit 6 new segments onto my new machine (free) my other prob was where I had it mounted on a workbench, and not the proper table for it, the dust extractor pipe was inaccessible to put my adaptor and hose on it. I said if the machines fitting came out at 90deg there would be no problem, his answer to that was to give me a length of flexi hose to fit machines extractor port so it could flex around the bench and then my adaptor and hose would fit. Both probs sorted FOC and not only that he set up the machine's front to rear blade travel for me while i was there. While I was there he said he downloaded some plans to test the machines with, but plans were very basic, so I gave him the web address of Steves site and told him about the plans there. he said he will see about joining this forum too, so all you UK members should soon have an Axminster rep here to discuss probs or machine specs with. Todays trip to Axminster proved my earlier comment, The service and backup from Axminster Power Tools is fantastic, and the staff are friendly and helpful, excellent service, Thank you Axminster Power Tools (and Darren) for your backup service.
Hi Keefie,
I initialy put an order in couple to three weeks prior to christmas, cannot recall exact date. Anyhow they said they had no EX-21's in stock until February, so I cancelled and tired elsewhere, as I hoped to purchase one for January at least. (The female member of staff who contacted me was very nice and understanding).
So I tried this other supplier and that was the same response, ie February, so I decided I would not order from the alternative place and go back to Axinster site and re-order a machine with them, as they are main supplier.
Anyhow I thought well if its February its February, I can be pholosophical about it and wait. The lady who cantacted me previously contacted me again having ordered again online, and informed me that there would indeed still not be a shipment untill February, however there was a machine in stock up North from me (I am in Manchester) and she could ship that down to Warrington I think it was, then ship it to me in Manchester, but could not guarentee a pre-Christmas delivery. Well, at least it would not be February.
It worked out great, the machine was dispatched on the 23rd and was delivered the following week.
I was very grateful to the young lady who contacted me and help to get a machine to me for Christmas. I was impressed with the service, the machine when I tested it before atempting a solid setup was great, I literaly got it out of the box and did some test cuts and was immediately impressed.
At the moment I am still configuring part of my workshop/Shed but should be up and scrolling in a couple of weeks from now once I have sorted some more changes out in my man cave.
I have read several accounts of good service from Axminster from other people online, and this was the reason eventualy that I ended up re-order from them rather than looking elsewhere.
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I said Axminster gives good service. I am glad you have your machine now, arent they a nice machine to use? you will have so much fun with it you're not going to want to leave the "mancave"