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General Category => General Scroll Saw Talk => Topic started by: Becky on November 10, 2010, 10:28:55 pm
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I know I will see some cash coming my way this Christmas and probably a gift card or two. My little shop can use a lot of things. All I have is my saw, drill press and 4" belt sander. Oh and I have a jigsaw for cutting wood to length. I don't have much space so whatever I get has to be really useful.
My top two thoughts are a thickness planer or a small table saw. I'm leaning toward the thickness planer because I never seem to have wood the thickness that I want. I have many nice boards from Woodcraft - butternut, Honduran mahogany, walnut etc. but they are all 1" thick and I never seem to need that. While it seems a shame to plane it down and waste so much, I am afraid I will never use it if I don't.
Table saws make me a little nervous so if I get one, it'll be small like a table/benchtop model. It would be nice to be able to make a good, clean edge but I *can* cut on the scrollsaw and then sand. Not perfectly flat like a table saw would do though.
You guys know a lot more about this stuff than I do. What would you advise? And what brands?
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Becky, I have a similar problem to yours..not much room and the need for thinner boards than I have and can readily find. I do have a Grizzly 10" table saw that I bought from the last owner of my home, but frankly, I've never used it for scroll saw projects. I have a 4" belt sander and a couple of orbital sanders, a small and a large drill press, and my trusty Dremel. I've wondered about getting a band saw so I could resaw some of the larger boards down to size, and then I'd need a planer to go with it. Not sure I have room for a band saw. Maybe sell the Grizzley?? I'd also like to get a mop sander.
Hopefully some of the other members have some great ideas, suggestions.
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Well Becky, only you know what you need or want, but if I were in you boat, I would get a table saw before a thickness planer. My first woodworking tool was a table saw and can't see being without one. the next tool I would recommend is a random orbital sander. Every single project I make sees The ROS. Then the thickness planer. I would be lost without my thickness planer, but I could not be without a table saw!
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Becky if you are going to cut wood you need a bench saw and you need a planer this will give you boards to the thickness that you need and the size, most home handy person tools now are compact and easy to store, so it is up to you on what you choose
Jimbo
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for little over a 1/2 year I have a G?de gbs 315 band saw and I like it very much.
I use it to create usable 1/2" pieces out of branches or old 2x4,
wouldn't mis it again
one thing I would like to have because I think it's useful is a trim saw, but as you Becky, limited space.......
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Becky, Let me caution you on getting a table saw that is too small. There are many models of "benchtop" table saws out there and they are handy but not very user friendly and the small table makes some things a little difficult. The next step up is a portable table saw. They have collapsible legs and wheels so it can be stood up on end to conserve room. The table on these models is far more condusive to good cuts and comfortably using a table saw. If you are leary of table saws, the small versions will only make you more so. As with any tool, learn your users manual and familiarize yourself with your tool and you will find your reservations will subside with familiarity.
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I recently went on an orgy of power tool buying, having a retirement job with B&Q helps! Permanently sited are my scroll saw, one inch belt sander, band saw and drill press. My router table, table saw and thicknesser have to share a space on my trusty workmate.
Malc
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Becky. Like yourself I really don't have the room, [unless I could talk Chris into parking her vehicle outside]. But I bought a tablesaw, I resaw my lumber, then I used a belt sander to bring the wood down to the size I needed. I did this until I could afford a planer. But for 1/4" the planer really is of no use, so I fall back on the belt sander. Hope this helps. Dave 8)
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Thanks for all your replies. I am going to have to think about this some more. I was talking with a co-worker today who does woodworking - more into furniture and such. But he has done some favors for me when I don't have the equipment. Today he said I should come on over one day (maybe Thanksgiving week) and he will show me how to use his variety of tools - table saw, band saw, router table and planer. I have never used any of those tools before. Maybe that experience will help me decide.
Meanwhile, I do have a mouse sander, Dan. I forgot to mention that in my list. It seems to do a good job of getting wood ready for the scroll saw. I'm not sure that it qualifies as an ROS. Is there a significant difference?
I didn't know about the table saws that fold up and put away. That sounds like a definite possibility if I go that way. My shop space is 20' by 9' which seemed pretty big at first but seems to get smaller on a daily basis!
LOL, Dave, I am starting to think about clearing out a space in my garage for more tool space. :) At least I could use it when the weather is halfway decent.
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Becky, I don't know what a mouse sander is, but if it does the job thats fine. As for my planer, I have a DeWalt 733, which is not available anymore. It has been replaced with the 734. The 734 is basically the same machine except it has three disposable, reversible blades, the 733 has two blades that can be resharpened. My planer will plane down to 1/8". I would recommend the DeWalt DW734.
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Dave, you say you have a table saw, and that you resaw your lumber. How do you do that with a table saw? I must be missing something about how to use my table saw.
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Re sawing means to re saw lumber that has all ready been cut to a specific size, like cutting 2x4 to 1x4.
I have a lot of demo. timber given to me and that has to be re sawed to the size I require, then I plane it to the exact thickness
Jimbo
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Just like Jimbo said. I'll cut whatever to length. Set my rip fence, & feather board, slice what I need. If my table saw doesn't cut completely through, I'll use my hand saw to finish the rough cut. I cut everything a little fat, then cut and sand to the desired size I need. If the piece is thinner than a 1/4", I'll use my belt sander to get the thickness as close as I can. Works for me. Dave 8)
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Becky, It is a tough decision, but for me my first big tool was a table saw, so I would have to say, a table saw. And if you could, try it out first. I have a contractors saw, I understand you have restricted space, but try the saw out if possible, a friend of mine has an old sears craftsmen bench table saw and it makes me nervous when I am at his shop and we have to use it. Just make sure it is a solid saw. (if you decide on a table saw). My next tool for me was the tougher decision, a band saw or planer. You are right you can plane down the thick boards, but it always bothered me knowing if I only had a band saw I would not be throwing away another board, because you could get two useful boards out of one, by re-sawing it on the band saw then planing it. I bought a band saw first, then I bought the planer. I know I have rambled a bit, but It is a tough decision, good luck and be safe.
Mark
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The Mouse sander is a Black & Decker product. Just a power hand sander. Maybe I will spring for a cheap ROS from Harbor Freight and see if it is an improvement. If nothing else, I could put a different grit on each one and not have to change the sandpaper so often!
I've been thinking about it more and now have a leaning toward the table saw. The planer would address the current need to reduce a lot of 1" thick wood into something I would be more likely to use. But I looked through Steve's catalog tonight and it brought home to me how a table saw would enable me to make a lot more projects much more easily than I can make now.
My previously mentioned co-worker tody was steering me toward a Proxxon saw. It is small. But then I read in the description that the max ripping length was 4.25" (yes, inches). So I don't think that will do! So I am leaning toward something like Julie mentioned - larger but you can sort of fold it up and move it to the side.
Who knows? Tomorrow I might get to thinking that I simply *must* have a spindle sander or something, lol. Well, I have plenty of time to think about it. I am very grateful for your feedback. You're helping me clarify my thoughts.
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Becky, The mouse sander is a nice tool, great for finishing work on furniture and such because you can get into the corners but the cost of the sandpaper adds up. You might consider a 1/4 sheet sander. The are very inexpensive and you do not have to buy special sandpaper for them. You can cut regular sheets into quarters, hence the name. I actually have three of them and keep different grits on them so I just put one down and pick up the next. A random orbital sander is a great tool, I have one also, but you have to buy the paper made for them. If you do a lot of sanding - it all adds up.
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I was lucky and visited a Black and Decker outlet shop that was going out of business. They were liquidating there 40 dollar orbital 1/4 sheet sanders for 9.99 each. I bought four and use them all the time will 100 grit, 150 grit, 220 grit, and a spare. This lets me be able to finish projects without changing sandpaper.
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if you resawed your wood, maybe you could make a deal with your coworker. scroll something for him
or pay him a small fee to plane your wood. i did that once when i didn't have a planer. we also did that with a cabinet shop when we were making waterbeds. they had a three foot wide sander. we bought our own belts and when he had slack time he would let us run our wood. worked out pretty
good. of course that was a long time ago
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Becky..I have both the mouse sander and the orbital sander. The mouse sander I use in the house for very little jobs. But I couldn't get along without my orbital sander. Mine is a cheap one from Harbor Freight. About $20.00.
I have no use for a table saw but I use my big band saw all the time.
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I have a small shop as well but couldn't imagine it without my table saw, resawing, straight cuts, ripping you can take just about any piece of wood and cut it for scrolling - just to muddy the waters ;) Pete
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Becky. If you get a table saw, you can make different jigs, crosscut, miter, saddle, featherboards, to do different things. Theres plenty of places on the web that has free patterns that you can make yourself, with scrap wood laying around. It's probably the most used tool in my shop. Dave 8)
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My previously mentioned co-worker tody was steering me toward a Proxxon saw. It is small. But then I read in the description that the max ripping length was 4.25" (yes, inches). So I don't think that will do! So I am leaning toward something like Julie mentioned - larger but you can sort of fold it up and move it to the side.
Becky,
I think that you may have misread the discription of the Proxxon table saw. I'm sure that it means ripping HEIGHT not LENGTH. In other words, you can rip a board as long as nessary but the blade won't cut deeper than 4-1/4" so you can't cut through a 6" x 6" block for example or resaw a board of 5" width.
I don't know anything about Proxxon saws but most are designed to cross cut and/or rip almost any length nessary.
I may be wrong for the second time in my life though. ;D
Rog
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I can see that I am going to have to look into a new sander! Yes, the silly little sheets for the mouse sander are indeed expensive compared to sheets of paper. That's probably a good move for the long run. The mouse was the first tool in my shop.
My coworker is happy to resaw and plane for me. The trouble is that he does it in his own good time. I can't really complain as he is kind enough to do me the favor. I think it is just how I can't have the wood right when I want it that puts the planer on my list. I have given him a couple of things, but I think he mostly likes just to encourage me in my woodworking and to give me advice about things when I have questions.
FWIW, for two days now I am thinking table saw, lol. The Proxxon saw only has a cut depth of 1" so I think I am reading the ripping thing right. It might be the width of the wood or it might be the length but either one could be a problem.
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Becki,
I have the skil table saw from lowes 120$ i think. it comes with a stand. its great for small projects. i use a 60 tooth blade so it cuts cleaner.
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Becky for sure do that look see with your fried and his tools. You'll be amazed the amount of wood chips the planer produces. That wood you are removing turns to chips and you'll need some way to contain it and clean it up.
Doing scroll saw work I don't think you ever have enough sanding capability. A spindle sander you might consider. There is just too many different ways to go.
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My romp through power tool Candyland is probably going to be next Wednesday. I'll be taking a half day of vacation for this but it sounds like fun and a half day of vacation right before Thanksgiving isn't a bad thing either. :)
I should be able to try a table saw, a band saw, a router and a planer. I have never used any of these tools. I admit I am a little intimidated by a couple of them - the table saw and the band saw. But I trust this guy and he won't let me start without proper instruction first.
FWIW, I am still thinking the table saw is probably the way to go. I think you guys really set me straight on that one. But I still have to see how the whole table saw experience goes. I have no reason to be intimidated except for the stories I have heard about bad injuries. If you have any suggestions on questions to ask on how to avoid injuries, I'd be glad to have them going in.
I'll let you know how it all goes. :)
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Becky, A table saw is an intimidating tool. I know many people with missing fingers. (All guys). I still have 10. Here's why. I read my owners manual. I pay attention to what I am doing. I follow the safey rules. If I feel my stock pushing back, there's a warp or some reason it's pushing back and I stop the saw. I don't reach up to get my board until the blade stops spinning. I use a push stick.
In all these years, my only injury was a bruise caused by a piece kicking back and hitting me in the arm. Take your time and learn how to use your tool and there is no reason to be afraid. Just respect what it is and the power it has to cause injury.
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Good advice, Julie. I imagine I will be careful to the point of paranoia at first. Shoot, I was intimidated by my drill press when I first bought it. I didn't have any exposure to power tools as a kid - maybe that's a part of it. But I definitely plan to take safety very seriously. I think getting a chance to use one next week (with supervision) will probably be very helpful.
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confession time.....I am afraid of the table saw and the circular saw. Don't use either one unless I absolutly HAVE to.
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Becky. I buy a mag. called Wood, by Better Homes & Gardens. They have great patterns for making jigs for different types of power tools. I just made a feather board, miter & crosscut sleds for my tablesaw. They work great. They have alot of good ideas, to make your woodworking safe. Dave 8)
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Table Saw....
When working on the Scrollsaw if you 'force' or 'push' the wood into the blade you may break a blade or get an irregular cut.
Trying to FORCE wood through a table saw can get you serious injury!
We say it all the time in scrolling but it is just as true when using the Table Saw.....
"LET THE BLADE DO THE WORK!"
~~~GrayBeard~~~
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Dave, I haven't noticed that paticular magazine before but I will try to remember it the next time I am at the bookstore.
GB, I bet I read that phrase about 100 times before actually working on the scroll saw taught me what it meant. I mean in my gut. It does take a slight forward pressure to make the blade advance but I can usually tell if I am starting to push too hard.
I'm glad to have learned it on a scroll saw. Hopefully the knowledge transfers.
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Hey Becky, I have a good book on using the table saw. It's yours if you want it.
Send me a PM or an email.
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E-mail sent! Thanks so much, Dan. You're a sweetheart!