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General Category => General Scroll Saw Talk => Topic started by: jerry1939 on March 05, 2014, 03:56:26 pm
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Scrolled 1 1/2 years, but always single pieces. i.e. Did this: http://www.wildwooddesigns.com/Search.aspx?k=62241 Everything else I did was an individualized personal gift. Just bought this pattern: http://www.wildwooddesigmens.com/Search.aspx?k=62241 and want to stack 1/4" BB with 1/8" Luan on top. Would you kind people educate me on holding the stack together. Have room on the corners for glued in toothpick dowels.
1. Is blue tape around the perimeter & dowels adequate? LOTS of very fine cuts. Would the sheets separate and get sawdust in between the sheets?
2. I am a fan of Blue tape & 3M spray. Should I cover all sides of every sheet & glue them together? If so would it be possible to pry apart the finished product, or would the tiny pieces break?
A big Thanks for any and help.
jerry
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on the stacks i have done all i use is tape to keep them together.never use the toothpick method never had a reason to.the tape method works for me.
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I have used tape, but found on the backside restricts how easy it will slide on the table top, if your cutting 1/4 bb, at a 3 stack you can use a brad nailer with 5/8ths brads and nail 3 together without the nail going through, if want to do 4 get one nail to just catch the 4th one, flip over and not nailing in the good part I put them at the corners and in the waste brad nail the stack. This also pulls the stack tight without any gaps and has worked great for me, thats if you have you a brad nailer and a air compressor to run it. I got my small nailer at HF there is also a pin nailer uses small pins to hold wood together, useful in helping glue projects together and creates a tiny hole, most times will not see it.
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I do lots of stack cutting, and rarely do anything other then tape the edges. I do mostly portraits and only put a nail or toothpick in the middle if my wood is bowing with a gap in the middle. (usually I check and keep the bowing in the same direction so there is no gap, but sometimes I miss one)
When I stack cut ornaments (or other things where I am cutting several pieces out of one board) I will usually drill an entrance hole rather then cut from the outside. It really helps to keep everything together. I do sometimes put a nail in the middle to keep things together.
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I have used the toothpick process for several years. They are cheap so you can use as many as you can. I put them mostly in the larger areas, the ones I cut out last. Before the toothpicks, I tape it together with blue tape or cheap masking tape. I then put on the pattern by applying right after I spray it. Then the toothpicks. Most of the stuff I cut is, or was, stacked. You don't want the stack to shift. As far as sawdust between the layer, I feel that is not something to worry about. The only time sawdust has been a problem was before i started gluing the pattern so heavy. Now it can't get in between the pattern and the wood. And remember, I use junk for the top layer so I can take the top off and no more work. Good Luck :) :) :)
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The method that I use for stack cutting 3 pcs 1/8 bb is to tightly clamp the stack at 4 corners with hand clamps, run a bead of hot melt glue accross the thickness of the 3 pcs at least at each corner, after the glue sets remove the clamps and cover the top with purple painters tape, the pattern is spray glued onto the tape and a layer of clear packing tape goes on top. The purple tape has a little less glue than the blue tape and therefore pulls off easier when removing the pattern and the pattern can be left on for days with no problems coming off.
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I have used staples from my hand held staple gun with great succes. I mostly use 3/8 but on yur stack 1/4 would work great. No movement, no dragging rom tape on the back and the staple go with the scrap. This is my go to method when ever I can make it work.
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I also clamp the peices together and Hot Glue the edges. Makes for a very strong peice of wood.
Jim. . .
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Not to hijack this thread, but could someone explain the toothpick thing?
Generally speaking, if the pieces aren't too big, I have no trouble with just using the blue tape. I *do* have trouble with the center parts of larger pieces. I would expect the same problem with the hot glue approach. Last time I was stack cutting would about 8" square I used double sided tape in the middle and it worked but it was pretty hard to get off afterwards and I would worry if it was super delicate. Does the toothpick thing solve this movement in the center problem?
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You folk are an awesome bunch !!!!!!!!!!
THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE
jerry
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Blue masking tape around the outside edges, pattern, then let the packing tape overlap from top to bottom. Be aware as you cut that you might be cutting away your support and might need to add some back in - especially if you're cutting a shape out the stack like a cross where the outer edges are cut away.
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I usually use double sided carpet tape for stack cutting. However if the design is really intricate on 1/8" wood, I wouldn't advise it. I usually cut 1/4" or greater and most of my patterns are not that intricate.
One thing you might try if you just tape around the outside edges is, after you cut all the interior area and start on the outer cut, to stop and re-tape as you go. Example, cut the top portion completely away and the put a piece of blue tape in that area, then one side and re-tape that side and then the bottom and re-tape. By the time you cut the last side you will be done and have only three pieces of tape to contend with.
Just a suggestion.
Rog
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In most cases when I am stack cutting I wrap the edges with clear tape. Not the invisible tape but the clear cellephane tape (cheap at wal-mart-97 cents for 1500 feet of tape) Have never had a problem with this. Works for me. Never heard of the tooth pick thing before now. Could someone explain this. I'm stumped. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
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I'm about to try my first portrait and I want to try stacking. I'm a little confused about the sacrificial board. Some seem to place it on top of the stack and some on the bottom. ????
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My understanding is that putting it on the bottom makes it the piece with all the fuzzies, making the other pieces pretty much ready to go. The only reason I can think of for putting on the top would be if you were worried about the tape or adhesive or whatever doing damage to the top layer. I haven't done many portraits myself but I have put it on the bottom when I did them.
But I am still waiting for somebody to elaborate on this toothpick thing!
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But I am still waiting for somebody to elaborate on this toothpick thing!
Becky,
As I understand it, the toothpick thing is kind of like using brads to hold the two pieces in alignment while cutting. Instead of using brads which are metal and can scratch the table surface and/or hit the blade, you simply drill small holes in the stack and glue toothpicks in the holes. Then you can cut and sand them down for a smooth surface on both sides and since they are wood, they won't hurt the table or a blade.
Rog
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Thank you Rog for your response. i think I will stick with just wrapping with the cellephane tape.
Works well for me.
Thanks again. AL
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Thanks, Roger. I think I will probably try that the next time I stack cut a larger piece. I assume I would put a toothpicks inside an inner cut or three and then cut the OTHER inner cuts while it is secured. Then cut out the bits with the toothpicks as I work my way toward the edges which should be pretty secure because of the tape.
Thanks for explaining it.
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Little late on this post, but thought I wanted to add my Procedures.
I for sure do agree with all above mentioned favorite ways. Have used them all.
I decide on the size of the blanks the pattern will need. IE: Ornaments
I just add 3/8 to 1/2" on all sides. Using ALEENS glue I just apply
Small Beads around the 4 sides. Clamp for Approx. 15 minutes. Ready for cutting.
Most of my Crafts are cut using Baltic Birch Ply. FUZZES are a thing of the PAST.
Used the sacrificial bottom blank for years. Never knew about Flying Dutchman.
I use the FD-UR#1 blade for 90% of all my cutting. I Stack cut most all the time.
This blade only leaves very small amount of the Fuzzes. Light sanding and the
bottom is as smooth as the top. Only use the Adhesive back paper to print the patterns. Works Great. Anyway.... This is only my 13 cents worth. Danny :+}
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Sorry to be so late with an answer to the toothpick ideas. Just got back from a week and half visiting the Oregon Coast.
I don't remember who I got the info but I have found it works. I make sure the toothpick is the same size as the hole, with not to much space around it. The reason for that is you are going to glue the toothpick into the hole. Push it thru so it sticks out both sides. Of course you are using round toothpicks. After the glue sets, cut off the toothpick with a dike just a touch from the wood. Then sand it smooth to the face, on the bottom. The top can stick out a little. The glue on the toothpick holds the wood together all the way thru the stack.
My junk layer is on the top. I don't worry about fuzzies on the bottom, and I don't worry about the pattern sticking to the face of the stack or whatever I am l cutting. Intarsia I don't worry bout the pattern sticking for obvious reasons.
I do like this system and for me, it works.
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What the heck is a dike? Can I assume a little Dutch boy is not also required? :)
I always get in trouble when at the hardware store trying to buy a tool when I don't know it's real name. I got a lot of funny looks once when I asked for pointy grabbers. Turned out they are really called needle nose vise grips. Who knew? And who gets to name these things? I guess I am just tool illiterate because I have had several experiences like that.
I hope you had a great trip to the coast.
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Hey Becky, dikes are wire cutters. And yes, men named them as well as most hardware. Male and female references are used in many hardware, electrical and plumbing parts. I sold Snap On Tools for 12 years and was a hardware specialist for Home Depot after that. You get some funny looks when you use the correct name for things from people who don't know what they are called.
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Thanks, Julie. I doubt I would have guessed that on my own. I am aware of the male/female usages and, for the most part, they makes sense (though I'd rather not have to explain it to a small child). But, seriously, whoever decided the appropriate name for a wire cutter is a dike is taking it all WAY too personally.
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Dikes is a shortened form for "diagonal cutters"...
Learned that from my dad about 65 years ago!
~~~GB~~~
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GB is correct! If and electrician sends his helper to the truck for a pair of diagonal cutters, he might as well have asked or a left handed sky hook. But ask for a pair of dikes, he will be back in a flash. Sometimes I think its a matter of laziness rather than disrespect. Dikes is a whole lot easier to say than d i a g o n a l c u t t e r s.