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General Category => Pattern Requests. => Topic started by: CharlesDearing on May 13, 2013, 09:56:18 pm
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Please don't factor in my feelings when answering. Many of you have seen my patterns for years now. What do you think it is worth in dollars....to sell ALL rights to a single pattern of my design? Meaning the buyer would have the rights to sell that pattern and keep the profit from it's repeated sales. This is limited to the pattern(s) that the buyer sells. The profits from patterns I currently have in catalogs, etc would come to me since I got them in there. Even if you've never posted here before...please give me a U.S. dollar amount that you think it would be worth to sever my rights to an individual pattern. I want feedback from everywhere so I am posting this everywhere I can think of. I have heard from $100 each on up to $200+ each. Remember...this isn't just buying a pattern to cut...it's buying a pattern to OWN, sell, etc....still designed by me but ownership, profits, etc to the buyer.
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Well, personally I have no need or desire to sell patterns weather my own or someone else's, so I would not pay to own the rights to a pattern.
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Charles Not being a pattern designer or seller I have no idea what rights would be worth. I would guess it should be based on what one gets for a particular pattern over time. I have seen yours and others patterns and prices for a single pattern, but have no clue as to how many time you 'sell' a pattern.
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Honestly, WHY would you want to sell the rights to a pattern that you have spent a long time perfecting? I know I wouldn't.
Marg
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Hi Charlie:
If I'm the buyer I would pay what you currently sell your patterns for.
Why would I pay more for it. I want to make as much money as I can with your patterns.
If you want to give me the rights for all of your hard work I say Thank you very much
We all know that you are one of the best when it comes to designing so I know your work will sell.
So, figure out how many patterns you have, what you currently sell the pattern for and you have your answer
What your work is really worth is not for me or anyone else to determine
You know how much work you put into it so you have to decide what is good for you and live with that decision
Fab4
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Hey Charles, The question is what is it worth TO YOU to not have the rights to sell and distribute your own work. That also give them the license to change and alter your original artwork. Can you bear to have another artist change your hard work? Only you can answer that question.
You said not to factor in your feelings so I would like to add another comment along these lines. You have made it difficult in the past to find you and your pattern library to purchase. I realize your work has been stolen before and you have found it necessary to "hide" your work but how the heck are you supposed to sell the patterns if no one can find them. I have been cutting your patterns for over 10 years, I have your book and love your work but it seems when I have needed to buy a pattern, you have erased yourself from the forum, facebook, etc and I have to make alternative arrangements. It gets aggrivating on my part because I cant find you. I saw a piece you did out at Alex's place and have yet to see it on one of your postings for sale.
I'm just saying, It would be in your best interest to set up a site and maintain it instead of coming and going. Lots of people love your work and would buy more patterns if you didn't make it so hard to find them.
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hey Charlie, I have cut a couple of your patterns and wood like to cut more but at the mo the money is tight...But I have never sold one of them.
Instead of giving up the rights to your wonderful patterns why don't you put out another book.
***Merlin***
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Charles, let me try to look at your question in a different way.
From what I see, most patterns sell in the $10 range, but these patterns are not for re-sale by the purchaser. Selling the rights, so the buyer can resell, modify, or even not sell the pattern, at 10 to 20 times the one time price doesn't seem to be way out of line.
If you sold a pattern for $100 and the buyer then sold it for $10, he would have to sell 20, or more, patterns to make a profit. (He also has expenses to cover.)
Not sure if this helps you but it is a different approach than other comments so I hope it helps you set your price.
Best of luck,
Jim
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I'm assuming you have registered your copyright. If not, you should do so. Following are 3 methods to set a price. You need to fill in the right numbers (I guessed at them) and make the calculations, then the offer price should be set at the highest of the three numbers (the highest and best use of your work). Good luck.
Real estate appraisers uses 3 methods to fix a value on a property: Market Comparison (what other similar properties in the same locale have sold for recently), Potential Income (what you can make by renting out the property), and Replacement Value (cost to build a new copy minus the depreciation of the property due to previous use, like the age of the roof or condition of the floors).
Market Comparison - my son is a non-famous part time artist in California. He generally sells bigger pieces, $300-400 is not unusual. I have not read your books, but assuming they give you some celebrity then I'd double or triple his selling price. That puts your offer price at $600 to $1200.
Potential Income - Investors will require a Return On Investment (ROI). 25% per year is probably low, but gives a starting point. How many of your patterns can be sold per year, at what cost per copy? If you assume 12 copies per year at $10 per copy, that gives revenue of $120/year. If that revenue has to support the 25% ROI then the market value would be $120/25% = $480.
Replacement Value - You might think of depreciation as the loss of value because the artwork has been on the market for a while, so those most likely to pay for it already have done so. If it is new work, or has not been offered before, then depreciation does not apply. To produce something similar to your work will take some number of hours of a skillful artist. You would set an hourly rate and the number of hours to come up with a work-for-hire price. Work-for-hire means someone else pays you to do their work and as a result they own the copyright. If a skilled artist with some celebrity offers his services for $100 per hour, and the work requires 8 hours of effort, then the selling price might be set at $800.
I hope this makes sense.
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i don't think i would give up the all the rights to my artwork to some else to sell.
just saying.
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Exclusive rights are expensive! What is the most profit you have ever made from one single pattern? Can you get that all at once instead of waiting for orders or royalties from a book.
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i would have to be along the same lines as julief, first i would not the rights to a pattern, i have bought some of your patterns before you are a wonderful designer and really good at what you do, i would have bought more patterns from you if you were easier to find, i think it would be better to stay put and just sell the patterns.
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Hello, first I want to thank EIEIO by the response that has given CharlesDearing because I found very Be interested and I can be useful.
I like the other users copyright would sell as much the cede for a certain time.
If you design the patterns for inmediatamte Jovi and do not need the money I would recommend that montases an online store and you to buy an address. Montases com and a virtual shop or through internet payments with paypal something similar to http://www. sheilalandrydesigns.com / for instance that in a good place you can go for 65 ? a year ...
Why so say the other fellow, the reason that many patterns directeamente not sell is because it is difficult to reach you.
If not who can help you to set up the tent, I could help that overall only takes 3-4h ...
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I realize Charles that this doesn't answer your question but I'm in the same opinion as julief. If your patterns were more openly displayed for sale, I would be more than willing to purchase quality patterns. Though Steve Good's patterns are free, I bought the pattern DVD. I've bought several of Sue Mey's patterens. I've bought a few from Sheila Landry also. When I see a pattern that I like and it's reasonably priced, I buy it, regardless of who is selling it.
Here's a question for you, how much money do you think the remaining Beatles have made from all of their recordings after Michael Jackson bought the rights to all of their music?
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This sounds similar to photography, back in the day when it was done on Film. I used to do wedding photos, and sell a package of photographs for X number of dollars. This included my time to meet with the couple before the wedding, taking photographs on the day of the wedding and sitting with the bride and groom to allow them to select which pictures and enlargements they wanted. I kept the Negatives and if they wanted more copies printed, then I'd charge them accordingly.
But there are some Photographers that would actually sell their negatives and allow the newly weds to print whatever and however many pictures they wanted to sell. I guess the theory was that they would get their money up front and not have to deal with the care and storage of the negatives. When I moved from NY to NC, I gave the Negatives to the couples that I could track down since I would no longer be reachable for them to order any more copies through me.
It sounds like you are asking what you should charge to give up all rights (The Negatives). I assume the person doing the buying plans to put these on a web site to sell or use as they see fit going forward. You should take into account the time and effort you have invested into the patterns, and the potential for future sales, then based on what you feel is a fair price.
Something else to consider. Are the patterns of specific people? If so, chances are you won't sell them again in the future to anyone besides the specific person. If they are of more generic subjects like birds, bears or buildings, then maybe you can use and sell them again in the future.
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Hi Charlie,
First of all your patterns are second to none and what you are selling them for matches other designers. I would by your patterns no matter who is selling them for you. Your designs are what sells your patterns. Even if you sold your rights everyone would know it is your pattern.
I would love to see a DVD with your patterns, sure it would sell. What ever you do looking forward to seeing more of your patterns. Thanks for sharing them from time to time.
Thanks,
John
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Charlie,
I would keep all rights, sell a scroll saw pattern DVD series that is themed. ie People, Places, Animals, etc of your works. Allow folks to sell the products but not the patterns. While your work is amazing, it is also targeted to a small craft audience so I see no reason to lose your future rights as an artist for what is likely limited benefit in the short term... (well-unless someone offers you a million bucks...then, I'd take the million bucks..) :)
My 2cents..
Ed~
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Charlie,
Just my 2 copper pieces here... but before you sign away all rights to this let me relate something that you might want to take a few mins to Google. A cousin and I were talking about signage at Walmart and he was saying that the reason you dont see that yellow smiley face guy in any of their ads anymore is beacuse they lost a big lawsuit and had to change logos to that big * they use now. So I googled it. Remember back in the 60s and 70s all the :) they use to wear on Tshirts and stuff.
Seems there's a family that trademarked it and still own the rights to it. They are still raking in millions every year from it. I would hate to think that you might sell something out right and some mom and pop startup takes it and turns into Facebook or Microsoft ;)
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Well, i have to admit that the main reasons that I'm even considering it is because I live off of $700 a month and rarely get pattern sales. If someone out there is better at getting sales of scroll saw patterns, then more power to them lol. I've tried having sales, posting everywhere that is allowed, etc to get some sold, but struggle greatly to have any takers. I didn't post these reasons initially because I didn't want to appear that I was whining in order to get sales. I'm hoping that the site that is being built will help, but i'm still limited in where I can advertise it. The two magazines charge literally hundreds and thousands to advertise in them so not real sure what else to do. I had downloadable e-books (pattern packets) in the past but didn't sell many at all. I don't know how Sheila Landry and Sue Mey do it lol. I have to also admit to myself that I do realize that part of my own problem is that most of my patterns are highly detailed and that intimidates some people.
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I'll consider the e-books again, but will likely be charging more than the $14.95 I charged back then. That was for 30 patterns in each book. People were getting $210 worth of patterns for $14.95 lol. Just have to do better math and see if it ends up as a better balance....or just offer pattern packets (5-10 patterns) versus "whole books".
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I love your patterns Charlie, but I agree with you, they intimidate the @#$% out of me. I buy alot of patterns from different sites, but they are crosses, boxes, plaques and the such. If I was into portraits, I would surely buy your patterns. The best of luck to your sales!
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For those of you who are intimidated, enlarge, enlarge, enlarge. One of the first portrait patterns I ever cut was a tiger face of Charles'. Once I blew it up big enough to cut easily, it was a breeze. I was also new at spiral blades and this was way before I knew about Olson and Flying Dutchman. I sold that piece for $250.00 and got an order for another one. Yes, some patterns have several hundred to even thousand holes. Oh, well. The time you invest will come back to you in the beauty of the piece. I personally love the details in these patterns.
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Charles Dearing , Let me first say that it was your attention to detail that keeps me cutting your patterns , you are a very talented artist, and to all those who are intimidated .... its only one cut at a time !!! it just takes a little longer but the results are just outstanding , i have had you do some personal ones for me in the past , but you are the artist and i would expect you to own the rights .
Like others have said maybe a website , a book or dvd ! once people know where to look you will get more sales ! whatever you do charles please keep the rights to your work !
I hope things get better for you and i will be back for more just shortly.
Pete
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Charles here is my 2 cents. You are great at what you do.I have purchased a few patterns from you, and like everyone.I don't know if I would sell them out right to anyone. Thats your work and time. Just like the way I feel when I complete a project, I'm sure you feel the same way. So how could you give that up? It seems to me it would eventually take the fun out of doing them. GB had a good idea.Put some books together.I'm sure you will do great with that. Look at all the responses you got just from the club here.....