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General Category => General Scroll Saw Talk => Topic started by: EIEIO on May 10, 2013, 10:27:34 pm
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One of Steve's catalog patterns is a Dollar Bill Jigsaw Puzzle. He glues a dollar bill to a piece of 1/4" BB Ply then cuts it into a bunch of pieces.
Does anyone know if there is any legal issue with doing this? I know you cannot deface currency for the purpose of changing its denomination (e.g. can't change a $1 to a $10) but this project would not do that (although you'd hope it is worth more than $1 when you're done!)
Any thoughts?
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Don't think Steve would do it if it was illegal
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Technically, it is illegal. But the laws are mainly to prevent counterfeiting and altering to change the value of the bill or coin.
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As far as I'm aware if it's art it can be done and as far as I'm concerned everything we do is art. ;)
Roly
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don't try to pay with it anymore... :o
although technically it's still a dollar bill.... ;D
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The Federal Reserve who issues our currency has a classification of "Mutilated Currency" for very old, worn, torn bills and bent or twisted coins.
The puzzle would fall in that classification and you could redeem it for face value, I think, IF you took the trouble to take it to a Fed. Res. office and asked for replacement!
Might be fun to try!
Do we have any 'bankers' that can answer the question?
~~~GTB~~~
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I wouldn't try it in a vending machine ;D
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Wife is a banker and says it is technically illegal to destroy it, but its no different than lighting a cigar with a bill. Not something the feds will kick your door down for.
You could send it to the fed deserve and as long as all serial numbers are there you would get a replacement.
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I asked someone about this when they were selling jewelry made from coins. They had literature explaining that is simplest forms it is illegal to mutilate money and then try to use them for face value. To "mutilate" for artistic purposes is not against the law. Although the laws may be different outside of the US.
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United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY
? 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
?Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
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I guess that settles it. Thanks Jay.
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well then, start cutting.. ;) ::)
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This paragraph from the U.S. Mint website should clear this up:
Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who 'fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States. This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. As a matter of policy, the U.S. Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent. (Source U.S. Mint)
Again there are no laws broken in the US by making these puzzles unless there is fraudulent intent to misrepresent the money.
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Not to open a new can of worms, but is it legal to sell a bill for more than it's face value? For example, turning a $1 into a puzzle then selling it for $5. Technically, the face value of the Dollar is still only $1.00 So long as you disclose that you are selling your ART for $4 and the remaining dollar is the face-value of the currency used to make the art..... What if you glue a dollar on either side of your wood, and face them away from each-other so that the puzzle also has a front and a back. But then you would have to charge Two Dollars Face Value for a single Dollar puzzle. Right?
This is just too confusing. It's like traveling back in time and meeting your younger self. Can the same matter occupy the same living space, or will time collapse onto it's self and cause a cataclysm of unimaginable proportions :-p
I suspect that if you make and sell dollar puzzles as Crafts that there won't be anyone questioning you. If they do, they simply have too much time on their hands and need a Fun Hobby. You could introduce them to Scroll Sawing...
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I imagine there are samples of collectible currency, like old gold pieces or dollar bills with Elvis' phone number written on them (a great way to get a fun-time date for $1 if you're Elvis), that sell for greater than their face value, so that's probably not a problem. But going back to the past and confronting yourself, or sneaking yourself the questions to an upcoming final exam, violates any number of laws. I don't recommend anyone violate laws in any place or time.
Just saying. >:(
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With all due respect:
Bureau of Engraving and Printing
U.S. Department of the Treasury
http://moneyfactory.gov/faqlibrary.html
These folks.take care of notes, not coins and there are no exceptions on their site.
Spoke with several other bankers and an Attorney about this Today and it is very clearly against US.Code Title 18 Section 333 to cut a note, which makes it unfit for reissue, but won't have the helicopters buzzing the house.
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Does anyone remember the machines at carnivals and arcades that squished pennies or dimes flat and long? (I saw one just a few weeks ago at a fair). They have been around all my life and I've never seen an agent shutting the carnival down over it. Plus the manufacturer of the machine would probably have stopped making them years ago if they were getting fined by the government for it. Just saying...
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I remember as a kid that we put coins on the rail road tracks, to have the
train flatten the coins. Mostly pennies. ;D
FD Mike
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I think it's like Steve said "fraudulently" is the case.
These laws exist in large part to prevent counterfeiters and swindlers from altering money for nefarious purposes
note: 95 percent of fresh notes simply replace those already in circulation.
Common $1 bills last about 21 months (and much longer if they are a puzzle... ::D)
question is what does the Bureau of Engraving and Printing says What Mutilated Currency is:
Notes which are:
NOT CLEARLY more than one-half of the original note and/or,
in such condition that the value is questionable and special examination is required to determine its value.
Currency can become mutilated in any number of ways. The most common causes are: fire, water, chemicals, explosives; animal, insect or rodent damage; and petrification or deterioration by burying. Under regulations issued by the Department of the Treasury, mutilated United States currency may be exchanged at face value if:
More than 50% of a note identifiable as United States currency is present; or,
50% or less of a note identifiable as United States currency is present, and the method of mutilation and supporting evidence demonstrates to the satisfaction of the Treasury that the missing portions have been totally destroyed.
What is Not Mutilated Currency?
Any badly soiled, dirty, defaced, disintegrated, limp, torn, worn, out currency note that is CLEARLY MORE than one-half of the original note, and does not require special examination to determine its value. These notes should be exchanged through your local bank
cutting one for just a jigsaw puzzle...... think it's not in the description of "mutilated" currency.
I would take the risk ;)
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That description is for notes that should be sent to treasury for examination before reissue or simply taken to a bank.
Coins and notes are handled very differently.
I saw someone ask for a bankers opinion to clear it up and since one was making my dinner I asked Her. Since there was some misunderstanding I asked several others the next day when I took Her to work, and spoke to my Niece, the Attorney, about it later that day when She called.
Agree or not, the answer you asked for is there in black and white. By the letter of the law cutting a note is illegal. Treasury is far too busy to run down someone making a puzzle from a bill or squishing pennies at the fair.
Making one for a gift or personal enjoyment also varies greatly from producing many for resale.