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General Category => General Scroll Saw Talk => Topic started by: IBMer on January 03, 2013, 05:24:35 pm
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So, I decided to upgrade the electric supply to my workshop. Currently, it's being powered by an "Extension Cord" that runs from an outdoors receptacle to the shop. Pretty timid power supply considering that in my shop, I have a dust collector, shop vac, drill press, combination disc/belt table sander, a router table, lathe, band saw, scroll saw, air compressor, various hand power tools, and oh yes, 3 shop lights. I decided that 240V at 50Amps was the way to go, then drop it down to 120V to my outlets. I'll have all the power I'll ever need to run my tools and install an Air Conditioner for the summers.
So I went to my local Lowes Home Improvement on New Years day and broke out my Wallet (which is quite empty now). The man "in the know" sold me a 50AMP, 2 Pole Breaker to install in my home's circuit breaker box, and 100 feet of 6 gauge wire. He said it was all I needed to get 240V at 50AMPs out to my workshop. I grabbed some conduit and connectors and headed home with my $230 purchase.. Yesterday, I spoke to a different guy "in-the-know" at Lowes and he said that I really needed a Main Lug Box. He sold me a 15amp breaker to install in the lug box for my lights, and a 20 amp breaker for my outlets (tools). He explained that without breakers in the shop that the 50amp breaker in the house would never trip should something ever short out in the shop. $78 later, I was headed back home.
New Years day, I dug my 40 foot trench, 2 feet deep and laid down the 6 gauge wire tucked inside PVC Conduit (in a heavy downpour of icy cold rain). I covered it all up and my dogs promptly went to work digging up what I buried. They seem to think that I stashed a treasure of dog bones and feel the need to check it out. It started to get dark, so I decided to stop and resume the next day.
I started to wire the Lug Box and new outlets when I noticed something was missing. The Lug box didn't include a grounding block, So back to Lowes for a grounding block and lots of questions. It appears that Man #1 at Lowes should have sold me cable with 3 conductors and a ground wire, instead of the 2 wire + ground. Man #3 tells me that not all is lost, I can just pull the 6 gauge wire out of the buried conduit and push a new wire through. NO WAY! The first time nearly killed me.... Not to mention that I have a couple hundred dollars invested in the wire. I'm sure Lowes won't take it back covered in mud. Next he suggests that I could just run 115V at 40 Amps to my workshop, but that I'll need to replace the 2 pole 50amp, 240v Breaker for a Single Pole 40 Amp 120V breaker. Of course, this is a specialty item that they don't sell at Lowes. I spent nearly the entire day visiting every single electric supply store in the area. It appears that I'm the first person in 10 years to come in looking for a single pole, 40amp breaker. Thank God for ebay, I found one for sale on the West Coast... Hopefully it arrives soon...
Today I bumped into an honest for goodness Electrician at Lowes who told me (Oh, and made me promise not mention his name) that I could pop the connector off my 50 Amp breaker that connects the 2 breaker buttons and only use one side of the 50 amp breaker. He said it wasn't up to code, but that it would work until I got my single pole breaker.. (Has anyone ever heard of doing this? Using only one side of a 2 pole breaker)... While there at Lowes, I bought interior wire to hook up the outlets, more conduit, connectors, and a GFI outlet.... Another $60...
So, it's been one heck of a frustrating and expensive project so far. I'm sure that I saved something compared to bringing an electrician to my home to do the work. Good thing I'm not in a hurry since this project is going to drag on into next week. On the plus side, I have muscle pain in areas that I didn't even know could be sore. It appears that trench digging is not for me. I'm only 45, but not in the best health with diabetes and a heart pacemaker.. Hopefully, my back, neck and shoulders will stop throbbing in time for the breaker to arrive from ebay. Until then, I'm broke, tired, frustrated and taking pain pills.... Life should be easier than this...
Hmm, and it looks like I need another roll of interior wire to do the lights. Seems that I under estimated how much I would need to do the outlets. I may have to sell a couple pints of blood to help pay for this upgrade ;-) Hopefully when it's all done, I'll have a more reliable power supply to the shop. Even if it's less Amperage and current than I originally hoped for...
John
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Oh Geeze, the ebay guy refunded my funds with a note that this 40amp single pole breaker is no longer available.. What a great start for 2013.... So, back to plan "B"... Use one side of the 50 Amp breaker until I can find a single pole. Anyone ever try this, or know if it's dangerous???
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It is not code but if you are running the wires in conduit you could add a #10 wire for the ground and use the 6-3 for the 2 hots and neutral.
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I just replaced the power supply to my shop. I ran 3 #6 wires in pvc 12" below the ground. Which is acceptable by code since it is in PVC. I connected it to my 6 breaker 100amp box. 2 slots for heater 1 for lights 1 for outlets, and another for my air compressor and drill press. I think the guy at your lowes store had no idea what to do. He made you his ID-10-t error for the day ;D ;D ;D when he saw you.
I had my brother dig the trench and I glued the PVC with a pull line rope in it. I helped my electrican pull 3 #6 plus phone line. I use to do all my own work until my disability. It gives me an advantage when I have to hire out my home improvements now.
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So, if I buy a 100 foot section of 6 Gauge wire, and fish it in my conduit along side of the existing 6ga cable, that will give me 2 hots, 1 Neutral, and a bare ground wire. So long as it's inside a conduit, it should pass a code inspection? I'll have to check to see if another 6gauge wire will fit inside the 3/4" conduit, if it does, I may still be in good shape.
Unfortunately, I had 4 different people telling different stories. I figured the guys working at Lowes knew what I needed.
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Look around for a "Real" electrician and get everything to code, it will be safer and work right the first time. I highly doubt that Lowes has licensed electricians to advise you.
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Here is a little drawing I made. See if it makes any sense as to what you need. I can give more info if needed. :)
# 6 wire will carry 50 amps nicely. You will need four wires. red (line/hot) black (line/hot) white (neutral), green or bare copper (ground). Those three will have to be the same #6. You can have a smaller wire as a ground as long as you have a secondary ground at the sub panel. All four wires will have to be in conduit, pvc is acceptable for underground.
Oh, I am a Certified General Contractor in the State Of Florida. Your state code cannot be much different than mine. I go by the Southern Building Code. Your state code would not be that hard to find.
Like I said e-mail me if I can be of further assistance. :)
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Hope this link and photo help
http://ask-the-electrician.com/sub-panel-electrical-wiring.html (http://ask-the-electrician.com/sub-panel-electrical-wiring.html)
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Wow this makes me glad I'm married to an electrician... Good luck.... Sheila
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Dear IBMer
When you get all the main box and circuit breaker - electrical connections, etc. sorted out for your work shop and start to think of where to place the outlets consider this.
When I did my basement workshop I placed duplex outlets, one circuit off red hot and one circuit off black hot and then painted the outlets off the red circuit red. That helped me keep things straight.
The main issue however, is that I placed the outlets only every eight feet around the perimiter of the shop.
Looking back I should have placed the duplex outlets every four feet around the perimiter.
This configuration will cut down on extension cords and since you have red and white outlets you can stagger the big current drawing tools from red and white so as not to overload the circuit.
I used 12 gauage wire with metal boxes and metal conduit and 20 amp circuit breakers for the tools. I have cement walls in the basement. I placed them four feet above the floor in case of flooding. You could go standard height since you have an above grade workshop.
The overhead flourescent lights are on a separate circuit with a 15 amp breaker and when I extended the lights I used the 12 gauage wire.
Be liberal with the number of outlets and add a couple of extras by your workbench. You'll be glad you did.
Works great for me for the past 10 years.
Walt in CT
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Thanks for the advice. So I went to Harbor Freight this morning and picked up a 50' fiberglass fish tape. I ran it down each end of the conduit and it stops about 2/3 the way there. I removed it and tried again about 6 times from each end and it just won't go through. I'd hate to have to dig up the PVC conduit.
Talk about frustrating. I tried forcing it, but could only picture the insulation on my wires being torn to shreds.
Any suggestions? Should I switch to a metal Fish Tape?
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I would pull the wire out and refish with the ground all at the same time..
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Twist the fish tape and keep pushing. It will go you just need patients
Make sure if you pull the wire out attach a pull line so two people can make the new pull easier.
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Sometimes soapy water will help it slide better too.
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You could hook up a generator to a bicycle and have your spouse pedal. :o Honey pedal faster I am running the welder! ;D
You notice I said SPOUSE right? ::) ::) ::)
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I have rubbed liquid dish detergent on the wires and it really helps & dries after awhile causing no problems.
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I suggest every place you plan on putting a duplex outlet you put in a four-plex instead.
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Wise tip Jim.
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SPOUSE? Noooooo, I got rid of mine about 4 years ago. Much happier person now.
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THE SAGA CONTINUES...
So I went to Lowes to find a 6 GA wire in hopes of fishing it through my conduit. I got there and found that they had none. The guy I worked with was super nice. He told me that if I brought back the 6/2 wire I had bought that they would refund me and sell me the 6/3 wire that I should have got to begin with.
So I pulled up the 6/2 and laid down 6/3 this weekend. All I have left to do is connect it to my home's fuse box and test it all out. The shop is very small, so I only 4 outlets wired for 20 amps each. That will cover my larger machines, the smaller hand tools I'll plug into a power strip. Also put in a 15 amp breaker for the overhead lights.
I'll have to say, 6/3 cable is one stiff son of a gun to work with. My hands are sore from working with it, but it should carry 50 amps to my shed with little loss of power.
John
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I hope that is 6-3 + ground.